Auditioning etc.

E

earl of sodbury

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Very good - sadly I've been a "yes" to most of those... Only the recent arrival of a flawed but lovely amplifier has made me question my approach.

Everyone should read that piece:^

churz, eofs

 

The Swedish Chef

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dinner calling.... but is this the piece where he states that you shouldn't bring along music you know to a demo but to buy an album on the way and choose the kit based on which one makes it more enjoyable? interesting spin on the normal approach and certainly worth considering.

apologies if its not that article

 
E

earl of sodbury

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The Swedish Chef wrote:

dinner calling.... but is this the piece where he states that you shouldn't bring along music you know to a demo but to buy an album on the way and choose the kit based on which one makes it more enjoyable? interesting spin on the normal approach and certainly worth considering.apologies if its not that article
thassit
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Ant

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Similar, the idea is to take 24 tracks of music you don't know (there must be that many in all of our record collections) and choose the component/system/wire that lets you hear the differences between each track the best. Not one that you think sounds right/more musical.

It's interesting, I don't know if I agree but I'm going to give it a go with cables this evening.

 

Ant

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Hmmm done my little cable test, only used 8 tracks rather than 24 to see if there was any merit in it. There was a clear winner and it would not have been the one I would have chosen.

I am really struggling with this concept.

 

The Swedish Chef

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Ant wrote:

Hmmm done my little cable test, only used 8 tracks rather than 24 to see if there was any merit in it. There was a clear winner and it would not have been the one I would have chosen.I am really struggling with this concept.
a change is as good as a rest, as they say:p

this is a very short term test, leave the new bits in place fora while and see if your listening time increase or decreases, this will be the true result

 

Ant

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Well it can't increase I don't do anything but listen, and neither of these cables were in my system before the test took place. One of them sounded good most enjoyable however each piece of music took on a character so much so that everything from ACDC to Motzart had a similar feel and size. The other cable had a smaller soundstage on some stuff, harsh trebles on some stuff etc.etc it was an obvious difference that this one was more neutral and imparting less of it's character on the music.

If PQ is correct then this cable is 'better' than the other one.

I will not be naming either cable
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Kiang

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interesting.

Forget about cables and lets just look at amp and CD player.

CD player (a) and Amp(b) combo - recordings do not sound varied/different

so change to

CD player (c) and amp (b) combo - recordings sound varied /different

by the argument presented the second combo is best.

So now if you wanted to upgrade what are you looking for? varied/different by how much ?

If you are asking yourself this question you force yourself to revert back to the previous combo that worked , as a reference point - this surely is another path that leads to the same road to audio hell ?

I believe that the whole exercise was nothing but a journey to find a new "microdetail" to look for ,nothing more. Another novel way of doing it.

The traditional argument that if the item does it for you , the way you percieve it as beneficial and better - then its better (for you) probably holds good .

 

Ant

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I agree somewhat with what you are saying but the reference is really only there to compare with not against. You could do this in any system I wager and get the same result.

I've given probably way too much thought and I think this is the point.

If component a reveals more difference between records than the b then I thought you may get into a situation where things would become bright and forward and mega detailed (not my cup of tea). However when really considering this the mega bright and forward system would make pretty much everything sound mega bright and forward leaving only the dull as dishwater records to sound 'normal'. The truly 'transparent' (in quotes as there is no such thing) system would allow all the little things to come through on the record. Yes some of the records may to your ears sound shit but you aren't hiding anything.

I guess you would end up with a ruthless system but it's hard to say with exploring it to it's conclusion or running out of money.

 

jonjin

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I always thought every system had a particular sound. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfectly neutral piece of kit! And I probably wouldn't want it either...

JJ

 

mosfet

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Ant wrote:

Have a read of this, it is rather long and dry in places but I enjoyed it.http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm

Once you have come back and tell us what you think.
A godawful mish-mash of objectivity (“accuracyâ€) and subjectivity that’s bound to lead to confusion.

The accuracy of any system - not necessarily a hi-fi system but any linear system with an input and output - is output minus input equals zero. The closer to zero, the more accurate the system in question.

Everything described in the article is subjective. And so too will the results be (which is fine for choosing hi-fi kit).

 

Lawrie

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mosfet wrote:

A godawful mish-mash of objectivity (“accuracyâ€) and subjectivity that’s bound to lead to confusion. The accuracy of any system - not necessarily a hi-fi system but any linear system with an input and output - is output minus input equals zero. The closer to zero, the more accurate the system in question.

Everything described in the article is subjective. And so too will the results be (which is fine for choosing hi-fi kit).
This whole damn hobby and many of the recommendations and various combinations of kit (whether in magazines or on forums) does lead to confusion so what is so different about the Audio Note approach?

Ah, yes! That word again "Accuracy". Is there such a thing as an accurate system or does it simply exist in the minds of theorists?
smile.png
In fact, how do you subjectively define the word "accurate" where hifi is concerned?

Enjoy the musicâ„¢

Lawrie:D

 

griffo104

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I'm not sure how you can audition without music you know.

The two bake-offs I attended proved that to me. Yes - I heard some great music I've gone out and bought but how could I judge the hifi with it ?

You need to be able to tell what impact the hifi has on the music - The Buffalo Tom Effect showed that to me recently. Just think if I had just bought that album not listened to it and walked in to a dealership ? Not only would the music sound pretty dreadful but I would look a right twat for doing it and would, imo, be wasting the dealers time as well.

Also how would I know whether it was the equipment, the recording, the room, whatever ? If you don't have a control for what that album sounds like in your regular listening how can you judge the hifi ?

You test drive a car before buying it so you can feel what it's like to drive - you don't sit there in the passenger seat with a stranger drivingand ask them what it feels like.

 

The Swedish Chef

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griffo104 wrote:

I'm not sure how you can audition without music you know.....
the premise of the argument is that if you have a pre conceived idea of how the music should sound youwillautomatically choose the kit that meets your assumptions not the kit that actually makes the best noise.

the idea has merit but imo does not take into account the fact that i know how coloured i like my presentation, and will therefore always gravitate to kit that gives me that sound

 

griffo104

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The Swedish Chef wrote:

griffo104 wrote:
I'm not sure how you can audition without music you know.....
the premise of the argument is that if you have a pre conceived idea of how the music should sound youwillautomatically choose the kit that meets your assumptions not the kit that actually makes the best noise.
But what if you want the kit that makes the best noise with YOUR music ? You know the stuff you spend 99% of your time listening to.

Buy 24 tracks you don't know, demo kit and buy hifi based on that, get home put your favourite album on and it sounds .... utter shite. I can see what they are saying - I just don't see how you can do it.

Take the album I have as an avatar - Streetcleaner by Godlfesh - a great album, a cheap pretty dire recording. I always take this with me to demo at a dealers for the exact reason I know what it can do to a hifi (and the poor dealer).

Now let me give that to one of the classical boys (or someone who likes Dire Straits or such music) and tell them to go and listen to it at a demo without knowing what is contained on the disk.

They simply wouldn't know how the kit was performing - imo of course.

Preconceptions are funny thing but when I'm spending money I want to KNOW I'm what I'm getting when I get home with it.

 

Ant

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It doesn't mention buying an album on the way to the demo. It's not about music you don't know but actually stuff you like but don't use all the time for demos, that was my mistake in my second posting.

As for objective/subjective. If we avoid semantics for a minute and just look at the process in a world of subjectivity (which hifi is as measurements have proven to not relate directly to musical enjoyment). Is this subjective process likely to produce a different result from the one that most of us employ? If so what is the likely result?

 

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