Basics of computer based hifi

[Benja]

Hi, for anyone who hasn't seen any of my other posts, I'm new to hifi and have a budget set up.

i am a little baffled as to the capabilities and costs of these systems, so if someone could be kind enough to give me a brief rundown to get me started.

My ideal would be somthing that sucked all the music of my windows laptop and my girlfriends mac and that I can control through my ipad. Does this exist? Will I need a dac?

thanks again, I have tried reading posts and reviews to understand this but I feel like there may be something that I'm missing.

 

[Purite Audio]

Just rip your Cds into a lossless format AIFF or ALAC for Macs and FLAC for PCs.

Itunes will rip and catalogue your music, you can use the onboard analogue out of the Mac ( headphone socket) or you can use your external dac if you have one.

For your PC I would download JRiver Media centre, it does the same jobs ITunes and there is a nice JRemote IPad amp to control it.

Keith.

 

[Muddy Funster]

Just rip your Cds into a lossless format AIFF or ALAC for Macs and FLAC for PCs.Itunes will rip and catalogue your music, you can use the onboard analogue out of the Mac ( headphone socket) or you can use your external dac if you have one.

For your PC I would download JRiver Media centre, it does the same jobs ITunes and there is a nice JRemote IPad amp to control it.

Keith.

A little too reductionist for my liking, Keith.

If you are ripping to iTunes, go into preferences (in the iTunes taskbar or press CMD-,) if you want the Mac to just churn through discs choose 'Import CD and Eject' on the 'When You Insert a CD' box, then click on 'Import Settings'. Set to AIFF (no compression so big files, but better handling of metadata than WAV) or ALAC (lossless compression, smaller files, just as good with metadata).

Most important. In the Import Settings box, turn on Error Correction. Apple leaves this off for speed of ripping, but you can sacrifice a lot of quality in the process.

Now go to Playback in the same preferences box and (if they are checked) uncheck Crossfade, Sound Enhancer and Sound Check.

You're done!

However, two tips. Apple has no way of knowing if a name relates to a band or a person. So 'Bob Dylan' comes before 'Boston' in an alphabetical sort. To fix this, after ripping a disc, select the recording on iTunes, hit CMD-I (for info) tab to the Sorting page and manually type 'Dylan, Bob' into the Sort Album Artist section if you want individual acts alphabetised by their surnames. Second, if you are into a lot of classical, go googling. Basically, you should adopt a more rigid approach to metadata than usual in classical (because chaos reigns) and possibly divide 'Classical' into sub-genre.

I'm not as au fait with the intricacies of the equivalent PC software. JRiver seems to be the best bet though.

 

[JamPal]

If you are going to use iTunes, kill yourself now.

 

[vacdac]

A streamer would offer what you seem to be asking for re using either machine as a server. Is yer G.F.'s Mac a laptop too???? *(*I'll get ter that later)

An SBT* (*Squeezebox Touch) would be fine. :^ It offers good SQ, but is now discontinued & S/Hand values are creeping up steadily. They prolly approach a decent £3/400 ceedee player in S.Q.....& are arguably better with high Rez material when used from t' SBT's analogue outs & using its internal DAC. The SBT is capable of handling Hi-Rez @ up to 24bit/192khz Natively with the 'Triode EDO plugin & will also handle most audio codecs......so if fer example you have all your ceedees ripped ter Apple Lossless already.....then no probs. As the SBT outputs 'Bit-Perfect' digital audio, if you pair it with a more capable DAC you should get v worthwhile improvements.

If you'd prefer to buy new with warranty then I'd suggest a decent UPnP/DLNA Streamer /Renderer such as wut I am currently using in my main setup* (* Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6) however this may be a little pricey......good as it is....I've recently upgraded to this having run SBT's fer 2 & a half years. However there are plenty of other good options. Pioneer have t' N30 which I've seen for under £250 recently & the soon to be discontinued Cambridge Audio NP30 Sonata Streamer was also £250 until recently, but now is back up ter £300, so may still be worth a look:?.....Personally t' Pioneer looks a little better to me....it has a nicer display & IIRC the connectivity is a little better too I also like that it's a full width component. TBH in terms of SQ I'd expect them both to be fairly close & either of them fed into a more capable DAC there should be no difference in SQ.

Re the earlier laptop question????? If you're running from a desktop that's up 'n running for large portions of the day & you have enough storage space or a spare drive then this could work well as a server for your streamer. The issue with streaming from a laptop can be that if your library is on a separate drive....then booting up etc + attaching drive & so on can mean you lose out on the convenience of on demand music 24/7.......which is part of t' reason a lot of people prefer to run a NAS as a server.......there's a lot more too it & I'll try & cover some more of the basics later......plenty of others will help, as there's loads of clued up peeeps on here re streaming & C.A.

Of course you may prefer to use a DAC with one of your poooters when you've weighed everything up........It'd be useful to let us know how you have ripped your library & what codec/quality you've used or whether it's predominantly downloads or all MP3......certainly if its largely lower bit-rate mp3 you could get v worthwhile gains by re-ripping to FLAC* (Lossless CD quality)

Pioneer N30 Streamer Here>>>> http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-10320-pioneer-n30-networked-music-server-with-internet-radio.aspx.

Cambridge NP30 Streamer Here>>>> http://www.richersounds.com/product/streaming-hi-fi-and-network-audio-players/cambridge-audio/sonata-np30/camb-np30-blk.

 

[Muddy Funster]

Hi, for anyone who hasn't seen any of my other posts, I'm new to hifi and have a budget set up.i am a little baffled as to the capabilities and costs of these systems, so if someone could be kind enough to give me a brief rundown to get me started.

My ideal would be somthing that sucked all the music of my windows laptop and my girlfriends mac and that I can control through my ipad. Does this exist? Will I need a dac?

thanks again, I have tried reading posts and reviews to understand this but I feel like there may be something that I'm missing.

Sorry. Mis-read your question completely.

It's not quite as easy without going for a dedicated streamer. Plex (http://www.plexapp.com) will act as a media server on one computer and can take the files from the other as SAMBA shares, and that can be controlled via the iPad. Technically Sonos should be able to do the same, if you download the server onto one of the machines and they are all on the same network. And yes, the SB touch did this, but they are getting expensive now.

A DAC would be a happy add-on, but I'd hang fire until you have your pathway sorted first.

 

[Guest]

This assumes you're a PC-head. I have no idea about Macs.

You need

A perfectly ripped (dbPoweramp) music library, in a lossless format (FLAC).

A program to organize and (re)tag this library: MediaMonkey or mp3tag at a push

A player:

• Squeezebox Touch
  
• Sonos
  
• a component-sized job from Cambridge Audio, Linn, Pioneer etc.
  
• a PC running JRiver
  

The first three have inbuilt DACs upon which you can improve by buying an offboard one.

The computer will have a shitty soundcard and you'll almost definitely need a DAC. Many people use a USB DAC. You can get a good one like the Behringer UCA202 for 20 clams. Alternatively you can spend 1000s.

Obviously these are my prejudices, but they work pretty well for me.

 

[Guest]

If you are going to use iTunes, kill yourself now.

Best quote of the thread award

 

[Benja]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, both computers are laptops and not active unless being used which is very little in my case as I use my ipad.

I like the idea of the component sized system, these still need servers do they? Could I use a hard drive to put all our music files on and simply leave it plugged into the streamer controlling it through the ipad/phone? Or a remote? This way I can avoid buying a dac for now.

 

[Guest]

I like the idea of the component sized system, these still need servers do they? Could I use a hard drive to put all our music files on and simply leave it plugged into the streamer controlling it through the ipad/phone? Or a remote? This way I can avoid buying a dac for now.

Ultimately, yes, the music needs to be stored somewhere central.

You *could* plug a USB disc into a Squeezebox touch, but this solution doesn't have a great reputation. Otherwise you're looking at having something that's always on; a cheap PC with a big disc, or a NAS which is a souped-up (and not particularly cheap) version of the same thing. You'll find a lot of people here use a Synology or QNAP NAS. Vacdac will be around in a minute to bend your ear as to the specifics

Most streaming solutions offer a control app for iDevices and Android. I wouldn't buy one that didn't offer a decent app.

 

[vacdac]

Some of these players will support directly attached hard drives.....you'll need to ask which are compatible/work well, not all do. There's a list over on Squeezebox forums somewhere.

There can be some drawbacks.....depending on how large your library is........with some DLNA/UPnP players/renderers you may not be able to use a controller App on your phone/tablet to navigate your library & have to rely instead on the supplied remote & the small screen on your streaming device......For my library of over 1600 Albums & 19,000 odd tracks this would soon become v tedious compared to the slickness/ease of navigation using any of my Android devices.

Of the players mentioned t' SBT would prolly be t' best bet ter run this way as it does have it's own cut down version of LMS* (*Logitech media server) built in & would prolly be fine with libraries of under 10,000 tracks.......again peeps who have experience of running an SBT like this could advise re upper limits etc. I ran mine from a NAS pretty much from t' get go & my brief experiments of trying this weren't a great success.

Library scans will be slow....including re-scans, which may be a pain if you are constantly adding a few albums at a time. Overall the user experience may be that playlist access & navigation isn't as fast.

One big advantage of SBT over UPnP/DLNA Renderers is that a suitable NAS to run it from can be done on the cheap as it doesn't seem to need a fancy pants more powerful NAS to run extremely well......I never had any issues with my Netgear ReadyNas Duo.

UPnP Renderers are a whole different ballgame tho' & do seem to work a lot better with more Ram + Processing Grunt so a complete solution can start to look pricey.

If you have even fairly modest pooter skillz a Rasberry Pi plugtop computer with a decent sized hard drive could work as a low cost 24/7 music server......There's a couple of threads on here discussing this & even running LMS.......don't really see why you couldn't run some Linux UPnP/DLNA server S/W on one of these. :?

Lol>>>>

Vacdac will be around in a minute to bend your ear as to the specifics

Don't think I named dropped me loverly NAS once in this here post. :nup: :TheBird:

 

[Benja]

Ok, we'll I'm not going to lie and say I totally understand all this, however, is it correct that a SBT would do all I asked apart from the storing of the music. For this a NAS is needed, I use this like a server and store all my music files on it from both laptops and control through the app/remote for the SBT?

 

[vacdac]

Yes.......except as stated previously......there is the option to bolt a HD directly on.....but with the above mentioned caveats. It's not a route I could wholeheartedly reco' to a Noob, just cos you may have issues getting it to work well, which could spoil the enjoyment of summat that can have extreme ease of use & once set up properly should just work.

The Synology DS213 series of NAS's allow direct use as a local media player & can output 'Bit-Perfect' audio via any of t' rear USB sockets & be controlled via Synologies excellent i-os/android Apps. They are extremely quiet....soooo nooo probs using in a living room. You would need a suitable USB DAC. Which could easily be done fer not much & the cheapest in the range t' DS213J is £170. If you decided to populate it with WD Red drives....which are prolly t' most sensible option then these are around £80 fer 2TB which could be big enough......If you already have an external drive you could save on initial costs by only populating with one drive & using t' external one to back up all your music. Simply buy & mount t' second internal drive once you can afford it later on & then use your external one for off-site backup or at least keep it in another area of t' house.

This option would still allow you to buy & run a dedicated streaming device in the future & use the Synology NAS elsewhere in the house as an independent local media player giving you the ability to stream different music to two or more zonez should you add additional streamers.

A suitable USB DAC* ,*get one with a couple of *SPdiff inputs too:^ so any other digital sources can benefit. This could easily be done fer summat quite tasty from as little as £80-£150 S/Hand. I've just bought a really nice good as new Audio-gd NFB 12 combined H/Phone amp/Pre Amp upsampling DAC for £80 this W/End & its working excellently with my DS213 as a local player in my bedroom setup. Sounds easily as good as t' SBT with it's onboard DAC into t' same system.....mebbe better even. I haven't done any protracted listening but I do still have an SBT in there fer now.(*SPdiff=Sony/Phillips differential, these two mfrs were t' inventers of ceeedeee. Basically means the mainly used type of digital in/out connections on digital eqpmt ie CD/DVD players & DACs of c. Most usually on phonos/coaxial & Toslink/Optical)

For suitable USB DACs you need summat that works with t' Syno's installed USB Audio drivers....not all will :nup: In fact t' one I've bought doesn't, but I already have a suitable USB/SPdiff interface. There is a work around to install t' necessary drivers but involves some 'Dicking aboooot in t' C.L.I.* (Command Line Interface on t' Syno) Still not rocket science...fer now tho' I simply cannae be arsed. Lots of USB DACs will work tho, they just need ter be PLUGnPLAY with Linux USB audio drivers & this should be easy enough ter find out & there are official/unofficial lists of ones that have been found ter work too.

Syno's latest range has better Processors/RAM than the previous ranges & prices on discontinued models don't as yet seem to be much different than their direct replacements. :doh: . For this reason I wouldn't reco' looking at t' previous models ter save costs. :nup: The new range are simply much better than t' previous models...which were already better than near all else in their class. As yet there isn't a single bay equivalent of the nooo DS213 range so as yet the twin bay DS213's represent the best price/performance ratio.

Lol.......Gyro's prediction came true then.....just not as quickly as expected.

Here's a linky to my NAS upgrade thread>>> http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?88255-Upgrading-to-a-better-Nas-with-more-storage.

I'll add more if interested.

 

[vacdac]

Double Post.

 

[Benja]

Thank you, awesome information! I think I will read through it again when I can google all the acronyms etc! So no questions as of yet but there probably will be....!

thanks again.

 

[vacdac]

Yeah....it may seem weird on t' face of it......but it does all that you have asked + leaves you with a choice of future options. Seems the most sensible way ter start off ter me & should be possible to do fer a lot less than a streamer + half decent NAS.

Like I say no reason not to just buy one drive at first to save on initial costs......If doing this however mebbe consider getting the largest drive you can afford....never any harm in 3TB or more, particularly if you want to make use of t' NAS fer video streaming too.

You'll also be able to stream music/video content to your phones/tablets + laptops too so you do in effect get multi room abilities from the get go. Could be useful for headphone listening or hooking up ter a tranny or second system.

EDIT

**Just added explanation of SPdiff which relates to digital inputs/outputs to my previous post. I've tried to star abbreviations where I've used them.....trouble is there's so many in common use. I really think we should have a well laid out glossary of these somewhere!!

 

[Chumpy]

... Choose what suits you.

For computer usage, I advise mainly WAV and mp3 formats ...

Others prefer differently - work out what suits you best/that might be meaningful-usable in future ...