Bosendorfer/Brodmann

foot tapper

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Nov 3, 2013
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Hi Kantz

I have heard them three times at a dealer in the UK. After enjoying my own system for a number of years with Proac speakers, I found the VC7 to be something of a shocking eye opener. They revealed just how much I had been missing from any other hifi that I had heard before.

In the first demo, they were powered by a circa £1200 valve amplifier (I can't remember the make, sorry) and just played music. It wasn't a properly booked demo, rather I happened to walk into the shop when the dealer was experimenting to see how they would work with a relatively inexpensive amp.

Second time around was a proper demo. He used a £4,500 Mimetism CD player and £10,000 Jadis valve amp to power the VC7s. We tried a range of music from P!nk to Eric Bibb to Alison Krauss to Beethoven.

Impressions? First, voices. The subtle detail, texture and intonation of voices was so much more lifelike and real than I had experienced before.

Bass lines sounded effortlessly clear and articulate. No matter how low the note, the bass line remained clear and sharply defined, whether from bass guitar, double bass or the bottom octave of a grand piano.

Treble harshness? No, none. Just clear, natural and effortlessly insightful.

Issues with integration of the drive units, or a lack of coherence? Again, no.

I have never heard a speaker sound more lifelike with human voices, with string instruments (violins, double bass, acoustic guitar) or with the piano. Quite remarkable.

Weaknesses? If you like hard driving rock & pop, then I suspect that the VC7 may not be the fastest speaker, but it ranged from very good to sublime on everything I tried. Then again, I am used to Naim amplifiers, so the difference in speed could be down to the amp rather than the speakers.

The third occasion was when I went in to audition the Sonus Faber Cremona M versus Wilson Benesch Curve versus Brodmann VC2 (the VC7's smaller brother). The Curve did nothing for me. The Cremona M and the VC2 both sounded very good but not great to me, so we popped the VC7 back on for a quick blast. Damn; it was so much better than the others that I burst out laughing.

In summary then, the VC7 was the best speaker by far that I had heard at the time. It remains one of the best that I have heard since.

Did I buy a pair? No, but I did try. The dealer went bust, then the dealer's parent went bust. I then contacted the importer to arrange a home demo but he didn't have any VC7 and couldn't demo a pair unless I bought them first, which negated the point of a demo.

I have heard Sonus Faber Guarneri recapture the beauty of the VC7's midband but not its bandwidth. In hifi terms, the Wilson Sophia is "faster" but less captivating to listen to. The ART Alnico Signature is a bit special but with a price tag to match.

If you have the chance to listen to the VC7, please do so. They may or may not be for you but they really are special. One day, I hope to be able to hear a pair in my system at home. If that day comes, I'll probably buy a pair for myself.

Hope this helps, FT

 

kantx

Wammer
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Dec 25, 2013
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Elsinore
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Fitzgerald
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Hi KantzI have heard them three times at a dealer in the UK. After enjoying my own system for a number of years with Proac speakers, I found the VC7 to be something of a shocking eye opener. They revealed just how much I had been missing from any other hifi that I had heard before.

In the first demo, they were powered by a circa £1200 valve amplifier (I can't remember the make, sorry) and just played music. It wasn't a properly booked demo, rather I happened to walk into the shop when the dealer was experimenting to see how they would work with a relatively inexpensive amp.

Second time around was a proper demo. He used a £4,500 Mimetism CD player and £10,000 Jadis valve amp to power the VC7s. We tried a range of music from P!nk to Eric Bibb to Alison Krauss to Beethoven.

Impressions? First, voices. The subtle detail, texture and intonation of voices was so much more lifelike and real than I had experienced before.

Bass lines sounded effortlessly clear and articulate. No matter how low the note, the bass line remained clear and sharply defined, whether from bass guitar, double bass or the bottom octave of a grand piano.

Treble harshness? No, none. Just clear, natural and effortlessly insightful.

Issues with integration of the drive units, or a lack of coherence? Again, no.

I have never heard a speaker sound more lifelike with human voices, with string instruments (violins, double bass, acoustic guitar) or with the piano. Quite remarkable.

Weaknesses? If you like hard driving rock & pop, then I suspect that the VC7 may not be the fastest speaker, but it ranged from very good to sublime on everything I tried. Then again, I am used to Naim amplifiers, so the difference in speed could be down to the amp rather than the speakers.

The third occasion was when I went in to audition the Sonus Faber Cremona M versus Wilson Benesch Curve versus Brodmann VC2 (the VC7's smaller brother). The Curve did nothing for me. The Cremona M and the VC2 both sounded very good but not great to me, so we popped the VC7 back on for a quick blast. Damn; it was so much better than the others that I burst out laughing.

In summary then, the VC7 was the best speaker by far that I had heard at the time. It remains one of the best that I have heard since.

Did I buy a pair? No, but I did try. The dealer went bust, then the dealer's parent went bust. I then contacted the importer to arrange a home demo but he didn't have any VC7 and couldn't demo a pair unless I bought them first, which negated the point of a demo.

I have heard Sonus Faber Guarneri recapture the beauty of the VC7's midband but not its bandwidth. In hifi terms, the Wilson Sophia is "faster" but less captivating to listen to. The ART Alnico Signature is a bit special but with a price tag to match.

If you have the chance to listen to the VC7, please do so. They may or may not be for you but they really are special. One day, I hope to be able to hear a pair in my system at home. If that day comes, I'll probably buy a pair for myself.

Hope this helps, FT
It helps a lot… and not.

I'm not in amplified, only in acoustic music. Check.

I don't listen to hifi, I listen to music. Check.

I have two amp units, both delivering high current. Check.

A large room. Check.

I have no chance to listen to it. Dealer nearby has Series F only. Uncheck.

So far so good.

Still pondering here. Spoke with another dealer in germany who says :

for twice the price, is the VC7 really worth it. He says no (he sells both).

According to him, bass extension and a bit of soundstage depth are the only real advantage, and he advise to go for the VC2.

Scratching my musical head…

 

foot tapper

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Nov 3, 2013
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Hi Kantx

Is the difference between a VC2 and VC7 worth it? It is a matter of personal choice, and then only if you can afford them. Personally, I wasn't prepared to pay for the VC2 as they were nearly but not quite right, so there would always be an itch that I would have to scratch. With the VC7, there's no itch, just beautiful flowing music. To me the difference is well worth paying for.

As there is a new UK importer with a much better reputation, I am going to have another listen.

However, at the end of the day, you will need professional advice to set them up at home to confirm that they work. I wouldn't buy a pair of speakers at anywhere near this price without confirming that they work in the intended room. If you cannot secure a home demo, then don't buy them.

My earlier demonstrations showed how very sensitive the VC7 is to proper set-up. And the set-up tweaks that work for the VC7 are different to those that work for a conventional box loudspeaker. For example, wait until you hear the difference that the brass feet versus spikes versus conical ebony wood feet make to the VC7's ability to bring music to life. I was very surprised and would never have gone for ebony wood on a carpet floor had I not heard it for myself.

That's about as much as I can help you on the subject, so what ever you decide, happy hunting. Perhaps a dealer demo of VC2 versus VC7 at their premises might be the place to start?

Best regards, FT

 

foot tapper

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Nov 3, 2013
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Hi Kantx

Audusa had no VC7 in stock and was not willing invest in a demo pair at the time and would only demo the VC2 if I bought them first. Their approach filled me with.... doubt & concern, so I held off and have subsequently auditioned a number of other speakers to try & recapture the magic of the VC7.

However, there is a new UK distributor - Nunudistribution, who seem much better and more helpful. They have just recommended a dealer for me to visit, which I shall be doing shortly...

 

kantx

Wammer
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Dec 25, 2013
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Elsinore
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Fitzgerald
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Thank you Tapper

Quite confusing. Just discussed subvject with german dealer. Says price difference VC7 vs. VC2 not justified. VC2 has yet all the the openness and clarity

of elder sister. He sells both.

 

eastsoutheast

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Nov 13, 2011
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Brian
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Just an observation having read the linked review, just under an extra £8200 for the most expensive finish, is this correct? If it is then £4800ish gets you the same speaker as £12900 just in a different finish, that's some premium and can't affect the SQ produced (can it),

 

kantx

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Dec 25, 2013
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Elsinore
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Fitzgerald
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Most expensive version is this (in €) :

Brodmann VC7 in Special Edition (Ziricote) 25000.)

Apart that model, tag difference are from 16000 to 18500 (€).

Anyway, no one sells cars on catalog price, do they ?

 

JANDL100

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Jerry
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To my ears, the Bosendorfer/Brodmann speakers have improved enormously over the years.

It's a strange concept to my mind - deliberately attaching sounding boards to the speakers which vibrate along with the music. That's just another way of saying "adds colouration" to me. :?

But yes, they have improved from the godawful tubby/thumpy/unfocussed noises they used to make. They are still flawed, to my ears, though.

A lot of good audio engineering has gone into the newer ranges. Just imagine how good they might be if they did away with the additional colouration-making boards altogether! ;-)

 

eastsoutheast

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Nov 13, 2011
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Brian
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Most expensive version is this (in €) :Brodmann VC7 in Special Edition (Ziricote) 25000.)

Apart that model, tag difference are from 16000 to 18500 (€).

Anyway, no one sells cars on catalog price, do they ?
The info below was part of the review link posted by the OP.

Specifications

Bösendorfer VC 7

Bösendorfer’s largest floor standing loudspeaker. Two-way system with two treble speakers, four bass drivers /mid-range speakers and two Acoustic Sound Boards.

frequency response 25 – 27,000 Hz ( ±3 dB)

crossover frequencies 130 Hz*; 2.5 kHz

power rating 180 watts

music rating 360 watts

impedance 4 ohms

operating performance 1.1 watts (for 91 dB/m)

dimensions (h x d x w) 1330 x 403 x 195 mm (52.4″ x 15.9″ x 7.7″)

weight 36.5 kg (80 lbs)

* based on the performance of the HornResonator

Prices 2010:

Ivory/Black £4745, Semi Gloss £8800, Gloss £11100, Gloss Veneer £12900

 

kantx

Wammer
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Dec 25, 2013
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Elsinore
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Fitzgerald
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To my ears, the Bosendorfer/Brodmann speakers have improved enormously over the years.It's a strange concept to my mind - deliberately attaching sounding boards to the speakers which vibrate along with the music. That's just another way of saying "adds colouration" to me. :?

But yes, they have improved from the godawful tubby/thumpy/unfocussed noises they used to make. They are still flawed, to my ears, though.

A lot of good audio engineering has gone into the newer ranges. Just imagine how good they might be if they did away with the additional colouration-making boards altogether! ;-)
What improvement ?

 

JANDL100

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Jerry
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They don't sound so confused and tubby/thumpy/unfocussed any more. Just a bit.

I'm sure it would mean a major redesign of the speaker if they took the colouration-boards away, and it seems some folks like the effect anyway. Adds a bit of 'bloom', if that's what you want.

It's a good usp, for sure, and differentiates them from pretty much any other speaker I can think of.

 

awkwardbydesign

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I've always been curious about their design, resonating panels and all, but never heard them. Yet. Very striking looks, but the tweeters' surface mounting has always made me grind my teeth! Silly, I know, but hey, that's what I'm like. Still, it makes me happier about not being able to afford such things. Would love to hear some one day though. Or maybe not, it might just upset me!

Glad when somebody finds something they love. :eek:j:

 

hifinutt

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it was good to see them at a recent hi fi show and having just been to Austria , good to know that Austria can make such a good product

 

littlebrownkiwi

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Jul 7, 2013
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Hi Kantz, just to add my penny's worth, I've now been living with a pair of VC7s for 9 months. They replaced some beautiful Sonus Faber Palladios and, before that, Quad 2905s. I compared them with speakers from Acoustic Zen, Davone, Quadral, Rethm, Usher and - later -the VC2s. Best rock speakers are the Acoustic Zen Crescendos, in my view. For everything else, and a broader range of music, the VC7s are hands down winners. They're not tubby, woolly or muffled; quite opposite, they are very articulate and detailed, but wholly natural sounding - with good, but not overwhelming, bass extension. The way in which voices and instruments are totally divorced from the speakers is truly impressive: great if you appreciate sound-staging and realistic imagery. The VC2s are really nice, but lack the lower register of the larger Brodmanns and the natural body of voices (for example). A costly solution for me, but well worth it. One word of warning, though, they do need at least 100 watts of good, clean, power in my experience. Good luck with resolving the never ending quest.

 

kantx

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Dec 25, 2013
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Elsinore
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Fitzgerald
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Nice of you, littlebrown.

Still tempted by the VC7. Only thing is :

- I have possibility to access a pair of Ocellia 30 Signature for a very sweet price

- I cannot easily listen to the VC7 because dealer has only VC2.

Regarding power, I have 300 B Ocellia Quaero. These are 15 w but very high current (up to 500volts real current getting in these trans) and dynamics are pure madness.

 

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