Cables for SUGDEN A21SE - Speakers & interconnects

JJohn

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As somebody who likes - but can no longer afford Cardas Cables - I would recommend Linn Silver I/Cs (all copper) and K200 S/Cs. I also like Atlas Mavros and TQ Cables or Colin Wonfor EWA Cables.
Thank you for the tip.

 

JJohn

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👍🏻
 

The A21a is a mismatch with the P3’s imo, whilst it can deliver in many areas, it’s a tall ask with speakers like the P3’s at 83dB. Going to the A21SE will bring more control but as the op has said, it has exaggerated the upper frequencies of the P3’s. For the first time, I would disagree with @CnoEvilregarding the TQ cables. As much as I love them, the combination with the Sugden and P3’s will only raise the problem further. 
Two sensible choices are Van Damme OFC or VDH 352’s. Both will help with taming the top end but the VDH will still allow detail but better control of the bass. These are both affordable solutions but not the full picture. Moving the speakers for optimum position will help too along with room interaction aids.
The A21SE is one of the most Dynamic Class A amps money can buy but it needs to be carefully matched. It works better with the C7’s than the P3’s and the 30.2. 
 

Regarding interconnects, stay away from silver, decently made copper is the option to consider and once again, VDH have a habit of doing what you need. Consider something like the Wave, you can pick them up second hand affordably. Don’t spend silly money, you don’t need to with Sugden although Siltech are nice but expensive.
 
Hi,

I read  abou the VDH you suggested and listened to a YouTube Video comparing the VDH 352 with a Nordost Flatline (I have the Nordost White Lightning speaker and interconnect cables). Indeed the step in the direction I was looking for. I'll try to get a demo on those cables.

About the interconnects I had the Van Den Hul The D-102 MKIII, but I have sold them before getting the 21 SE. I'll also try the The VDH Wave series.

Thank you for these tips!

 

JJohn

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Your findings tally with my experiences.

the se is brighter in my opinion, I can’t see cables fixing things. I think it’s all about the speaker matching. 
 

I found the audio note k, Stirling’s and Kensington’s were a fantastic match with the se, though the jamo Concert 8 I’ve just purchased where too lively, so I put the a21al on with the concert 8, and they sound lovely!
Hi,

The brightness is minor and only with some recordings or particular voices, manly female. I think the right tuning with the right cable selection and combination may fix the issue. The speakers you mention are good choices, no doubt. My speakers are between the wall (5 cm away - too close I know, but no alternative) and my work desktop, on dedicated stands, so I´ve choose closed boxes like the P3s. I have another set - ProAc Reference 8 - that also pair very well with Sugden, but they have back firing ports.

Thank you 👍 

 

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Nopiano

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the se is brighter in my opinion, I can’t see cables fixing things
I’ve never heard a Sugden a21SE at home, but when I had a mad moment during lockdown and considered Sugden, everything I read backs up your statement.  

@JJohn Is the amplifier brand new?  Do they mellow with age?  I’m afraid a modestly powered amp and very insensitive speakers is a compromise, and ‘improving’ things has detracted not improved.  I’m sure you will find an answer without reverting back, and the vDH cables are deliberately tone controls, so might help.  (I have a pair of unused Linn Black copper ICs you’d be welcome to borrow if you pay the postage).

 
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CnoEvil

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I’ve never heard a Sugden a21SE at home, but when I had a mad moment during lockdown and considered Sugden, everything I read backs up your statement.  

@JJohn Is the amplifier brand new?  Do they mellow age?  I’m afraid a modestly powered amp and very insensitive speakers is a compromise, and ‘improving’ things has detracted not improved.  I’m sure you find an answer without reverting back, and the vDH cables are deliberately tone controls, so might help.  (I have a pair of unused Linn Black copper ICs you’d be welcome to borrow if you pay the postage).
If I'd known you were considering Sugden - I'd have given most helpful encouragement.  B|

IME. Linn Blacks are certainly smooth and are a good choice if system can sound a little bright. Linn Silver is substantially more vibrant and detailed - while avoiding edginess.

 
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JJohn

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I’ve never heard a Sugden a21SE at home, but when I had a mad moment during lockdown and considered Sugden, everything I read backs up your statement.  

@JJohn Is the amplifier brand new?  Do they mellow age?  I’m afraid a modestly powered amp and very insensitive speakers is a compromise, and ‘improving’ things has detracted not improved.  I’m sure you find an answer without reverting back, and the vDH cables are deliberately tone controls, so might help.  (I have a pair of unused Linn Black copper ICs you’d be welcome to borrow if you pay the postage).
Hi, thank you for the tips and for your borrow offer, but I live outside the UK.

The amp is 1,5 month old. I estimate 160 hours of playing time - don't know if it is enough. The remaining cables are burned, except the power cable which has only 60 estimated hours of current going trough - Nordost recommend at least 168 hours.

 

CnoEvil

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Hi, thank you for the tips and for your borrow offer, but I live outside the UK.

The amp is 1,5 month old. I estimate 160 hours of playing time - don't know if it is enough. The remaining cables are burned, except the power cable which has only 60 estimated hours of current going trough - Nordost recommend at least 168 hours.
FWIW. I would not let Nordost Cables near my system - not because they are bad, but because I don't like how they make the system sound.

IMV. In the same way that Harbeth/Graham Audio are the opposite end of the sonic spectrum to Focal/Triangle; Nordost is the opposite to Cardas.

 

JJohn

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FWIW. I would not let Nordost Cables near my system - not because they are bad, but because I don't like how they make the system sound.

IMV. In the same way that Harbeth/Graham Audio are the opposite end of the sonic spectrum to Focal/Triangle; Nordost is the opposite to Cardas.
I agree 100% with your comparations. I took a look at Linn website but the only reference to black cables that I find is related to interconnects (ICs). Were you refering to ICs or speaker cable?

 

CnoEvil

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I agree 100% with your comparations. I took a look at Linn website but the only reference to black cables that I find is related to interconnects (ICs). Were you refering to ICs or speaker cable?
Linn do two I/Cs, described by the colour of their outside - ie Linn Black and Linn Silver. 

Linn Blacks come as standard with most Linn Streamers/Amps - and are often put on eBay. If interested, I'd take NP up on his offer....maybe with the option to buy, if you like them.

Linn Silvers - come as standard with Klimax level stuff - can also/usually be found on eBay with a saving - ideally you want them new and boxed. They should be 1.2m long. IMV They are substantially better.

Linn K20 S/C is the same as the older Naim NAC stuff and is fine - but their K200 (like the Silver I/Cs), are more detailed and vibrant.

I agree with @radiant redthat at full price, they are a bit on the expensive side (especially the Blacks).

 

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Hi, good evening,

New Sugden fanboy in the forum.

I would like to get some cable suggestions from the community. Looked everywhere and no comments on cables.

I had a A21Signature with Harbeth P3ERS speakers and Audioquest cables (Type-4 + Golden Gate). The sound was very smooth and the bass quite nice.

I trade the A21signature by the A21SE and the cables by Nordost, at the same time. I was looking for a bit more power for the P3’s and a little more resolution.

I was expecting more definition on high frequencies and less bass but tight and solid bass, since I have Nordost cables for a long time in a different setup with Proac speakers.

The problem that I’m facing is that with less good recordings the sound has extra bright for my taste and I feel the bass decreased significantly. The same sensation on bright female voices like Celine Dion. I have realize that the SE version has a more forward presentation than the A21 signature and, strangely, a little less bass (??).

What cables do you recommend? I was thinking trading the Nordost by Transparent cables, since they have nice reputation on the bass department.

I would appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance!

John
Have you asked Sugden what they recommend with their amplifiers? They should know best.

 

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👍🏻
 

The A21a is a mismatch with the P3’s imo, whilst it can deliver in many areas, it’s a tall ask with speakers like the P3’s at 83dB. Going to the A21SE will bring more control but as the op has said, it has exaggerated the upper frequencies of the P3’s. For the first time, I would disagree with @CnoEvilregarding the TQ cables. As much as I love them, the combination with the Sugden and P3’s will only raise the problem further. 
Two sensible choices are Van Damme OFC or VDH 352’s. Both will help with taming the top end but the VDH will still allow detail but better control of the bass. These are both affordable solutions but not the full picture. Moving the speakers for optimum position will help too along with room interaction aids.
The A21SE is one of the most Dynamic Class A amps money can buy but it needs to be carefully matched. It works better with the C7’s than the P3’s and the 30.2. 
 

Regarding interconnects, stay away from silver, decently made copper is the option to consider and once again, VDH have a habit of doing what you need. Consider something like the Wave, you can pick them up second hand affordably. Don’t spend silly money, you don’t need to with Sugden although Siltech are nice but expensive.
 
Can I interject briefly on this one.

I know I'm a relative novice with Harbeth -- only had the P3s on home demo for a week last summer (2020). On my amp they sounded beautifully balanced throughout all frequencies. I certainly didn't find them hard to drive/control, also excellent at low volumes which is important to me as usually play late at night.

I've not heard any Sugdens so can't directly comment, but for everyday usage (looking at specs and previous threads), I would suggest, unless you play at club levels, should be fine. 

Re cables IMO any good quality copper should suffice whatever brands you have. I love my Atlas Equators.

 
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Rockchild

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Can I interject briefly on this one.

I know I'm a relative novice with Harbeth -- only had the P3s on home demo for a week last summer (2020). On my amp they sounded beautifully balanced throughout all frequencies. I certainly didn't find them hard to drive/control, also excellent at low volumes which is important to me as usually play late at night.

I've not heard any Sugdens so can't directly comment, but for everyday usage (looking at specs and previous threads), I would suggest, unless you play at club levels, should be fine. 

Re cables IMO any good quality copper should suffice whatever brands you have. I love my Atlas Equators.
You don’t have a class A amp but a class A/B. 
the A21a does drive the P3’s nicely at moderate levels but looses finesse at higher levels. The A21SE can drive the P3’s at any level given its increased current delivery but care needs to be taken when pairing with P3’s because both can exaggerate the mids and highs. The SE is an extremely dynamic amp and for that, I would choose more forgiving speakers but in this instance, we need to look at room, cables and positioning. 
Get this right and both speaker and amp will reward. 
The best Harbeth speaker with the SE is the 7es3 because it’s the most flexible and forgiving of the range. They work better in corners (if needed). 
@savvypaul, Sugden like Siltech but as lovely as they are, they are expensive and through trial and demo, you can get 90% performance for less than a quarter of the cost.

 
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