Cables for SUGDEN A21SE - Speakers & interconnects

Colin Wonfor

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IMO the VDH cable is very good it just lacked in detail and bass transients I like, TQ was not bad but the progression of TQ cable if I was still with them would have been the EWA range, the price by TQ would have been hiked up to silly price due there greed. So the new range of EWA is much better and a much fairer price IMO. But do not forget VDH is very good indeed.

As to Mark Grant work, it is fantastic stuff well made with pride.😀

 

Rockchild

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IMO the VDH cable is very good it just lacked in detail and bass transients I like, TQ was not bad but the progression of TQ cable if I was still with them would have been the EWA range, the price by TQ would have been hiked up to silly price due there greed. So the new range of EWA is much better and a much fairer price IMO. But do not forget VDH is very good indeed.

As to Mark Grant work, it is fantastic stuff well made with pride.😀
By comparison, have you tried the aforementioned VDH with a Sugden A21SE and Harbeth P3’s? 

 
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Colin Wonfor

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No but with Inca Tech Claymore and EWA amps and a Magnum 250 all performed very well but not up to other but still good.

Royds, Ruark, A.E. and old Monitor audio speakers.

 

Rockchild

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No but with Inca Tech Claymore and EWA amps and a Magnum 250 all performed very well but not up to other but still good.

Royds, Ruark, A.E. and old Monitor audio speakers.
This is why it’s difficult to fully recommend unless you have heard the kit being used in this situation. Having had in the past, the speakers and amp, it makes it easier to recommend.

Also, the Mark Grant cables are no nonsense well made cables but as always, there are alternatives which can give the required ask or best as. 
Both amp and speakers are highly revealing with great dynamics but the two together is as the op says, too much. 

 

tackleberry

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Hi,

The brightness is minor and only with some recordings or particular voices, manly female. I think the right tuning with the right cable selection and combination may fix the issue. The speakers you mention are good choices, no doubt. My speakers are between the wall (5 cm away - too close I know, but no alternative) and my work desktop, on dedicated stands, so I´ve choose closed boxes like the P3s. I have another set - ProAc Reference 8 - that also pair very well with Sugden, but they have back firing ports.

Thank you 👍 
Do you have any treatment for the first  reflections?  are they close to side walls or back wall?

 

Musicraft

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Hi, good evening,

New Sugden fanboy in the forum.

I would like to get some cable suggestions from the community. Looked everywhere and no comments on cables.

I had a A21Signature with Harbeth P3ERS speakers and Audioquest cables (Type-4 + Golden Gate). The sound was very smooth and the bass quite nice.

I trade the A21signature by the A21SE and the cables by Nordost, at the same time. I was looking for a bit more power for the P3’s and a little more resolution.

I was expecting more definition on high frequencies and less bass but tight and solid bass, since I have Nordost cables for a long time in a different setup with Proac speakers.

The problem that I’m facing is that with less good recordings the sound has extra bright for my taste and I feel the bass decreased significantly. The same sensation on bright female voices like Celine Dion. I have realize that the SE version has a more forward presentation than the A21 signature and, strangely, a little less bass (??).

What cables do you recommend? I was thinking trading the Nordost by Transparent cables, since they have nice reputation on the bass department.

I would appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance!

John
If you want to hear the A21SE at it's optimum then the cables we use with the A21SE and recommend are -

Basic interconnects 

Basic 500 stand speaker cables

Please save your time and your money -

basic interconnect 1.jpg

500 strand cables.jpg

 

ryder

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I've never experienced any brightness with the standard P3ESR, pre Anniversary or XD versions. Perhaps it's just the poor recording which caused the brightness or harshness in the treble? What's the source. Is it a CD player, DAC or turntable?

 

tackleberry

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Could you post a pic of your listening room, I have gone through some experimentation recently with far from ideal acoustics...

 

JJohn

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I've never experienced any brightness with the standard P3ESR, pre Anniversary or XD versions. Perhaps it's just the poor recording which caused the brightness or harshness in the treble? What's the source. Is it a CD player, DAC or turntable?
Hi, thank you for your post.

After extended listenings and cables experiments, including Linn K10 and AQ Type-4 speaker cables I found that the problem must be related with some few and specific recordings. In the great majority of musics the sound is fantastic.

Both my DAC and CD have similar sound signature. 

The sound with Nordost cables is cristal clear. With AudioQuest Type-4 it gains more mid bass weight but looses a little bit on the treble definition - a natural trade off. Also a very nice and affordable cable.

The K10 brought warmness to the sound but at the expense of significative detail loss. As incredible as it seems this cable had interference with the center image that I previously had with the Nordost and AQ cables. The singers voices suddenly disappeared from the center and moved to each speaker. Let me also say that the K10 was brand new; things cam change a bit after they burnin.  

Sugden and Harbeth are an excellent match and I'm going to stick with Nordost cables.

Since the 21 SE is a high gain design I´ve follow an advice and ordered RCA 10 dB attenuators.

 Warmest regards. 

 

JJohn

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Could you post a pic of your listening room, I have gone through some experimentation recently with far from ideal acoustics...
Thank you for your help. This was not a problem with room acoustics. Please refer to my previous post.  

Warmest regards.

 

hiesteem

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Hi,

I read  abou the VDH you suggested and listened to a YouTube Video comparing the VDH 352 with a Nordost Flatline (I have the Nordost White Lightning speaker and interconnect cables). Indeed the step in the direction I was looking for. I'll try to get a demo on those cables.

About the interconnects I had the Van Den Hul The D-102 MKIII, but I have sold them before getting the 21 SE. I'll also try the The VDH Wave series.

Thank you for these tips!
I used VDH  for a long time as an interconnect to tame the frequency response in the highs and lows. It works.  Mark grant  are also quite a rounded listen, nothing harsh just balanced.

I find tuning with cables, a good alternative to throwing a lot of money on new kit. 

 

garn63

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I used VDH  for a long time as an interconnect to tame the frequency response in the highs and lows. It works.  Mark grant  are also quite a rounded listen, nothing harsh just balanced.

I find tuning with cables, a good alternative to throwing a lot of money on new kit. 
I agree that the M.G. does exactly that, & use it for amp & pre connection. Also the best cables are the ones that work & not nesessarily top of the cable charts.....imo  :)

 
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hiesteem

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Also the best cables are the ones that work & not nesessarily top of the cable charts.....imo  :)
Yes, it's about working with the system I have.  I don't change much of my system for the same reason.

Change anyone part of the system and the whole sound changes. I find this approach helps me simply enjoy the music as opposed to focusing on the system.

Personally I want the system to be as benign as possible to the music. Boring perhaps😄 but I get to eat!

 
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JJohn

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I´ve had my A21Se since it came out 10 years or so ago although I haven´t heard Harbeths. I have never found it hot in the highs but maybe that´s down to my tweeters (Seas Millenniums) and the fact that I have no digital input (ducking). What I do find is that the motorised Alps Blue  pot on my SE when used manually as is my case, is a bit " hot",  insofar as a Mini Cooper was a bit hot i.e. you just had to blip the pedal and off it shot.  

Come to think of it, when I had my A21a and I happened to ask Patrick if a motorised pot could be fitted - this was before I knew how uselessly slow such mechanisms could be, he told me it was not possible with the single-ended circuit, Then lo and behold the SE came out with a motorised pot. I had assumed it was for some electronic reason (power for the motor ?) beyond my comprehension but now I wonder ..... Maybe the motorised pot is designed to respond quickly sonically to counteract the slowness of their mechanical response using the remote . Food for thought, 

Anyway,  with hindsight an alternative slant would be to use basic but good copper wire (mine are Van Damme Black Tour - 4 core so only one run per speaker) and maybe spend some dough on improving the pot. Despite its seemingly low 30w output, I use mine with a stepped attenuator and also some Rothwells on the input terminals. Much better control. Who knows ?
Hi, good afternoon.

Thank you for the good advice. I bought 4mm Van Damme UP-LCOFC Hi-Fi Speaker Cable and Rothells attenuators. What a change in the right direction! The cables are amazing for the price.

Warmest regards.

JJ

 

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