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Can isolation feet be justified for Linn machined products

anatius

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When my house is rebuilt I will be having my LP12 wall mounted. The LP12 will be powered by a machined Radikal depending on the length of the cable connecting the LP 12 and the Radikal I may have to wall mount the Radikal. Given the anti vibration properties attributed to the machined casing is there any benefit to be obtained that would justify attaching high quality isolating feet to the Radikal?
 
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Ron.P

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You don't have to go to any trouble attaching feet to the Radikal. You can, as they are designed, just sit it on the feet. Isoacoustics Orbeas or VooDoo Isopods are well regarded. And if they make no improvement, you can use them elsewhere.
 

Carl E

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I have put IsoAcoustic Oreas under all my Akurate boxes, including my Akurate Radikal, and I think they make a nice improvement. However, my local vendor has tested this and he tells me that the machined (Klimax) boxes will not benefit from additional isolation feet .
 

Ron.P

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Linn recommend a stable support. Isolation feet sound like they may be unstable. You want your Radikal to be as motionless as possible.
It seems to me that the purpose of isolation feet is to damp or absorb or turn to heat, inevitable mechanical vibrations before they can interfere with what they're isolating, like the suspension of the LP12. No?
 

akamatsu

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It seems to me that the purpose of isolation feet is to damp or absorb or turn to heat, inevitable mechanical vibrations before they can interfere with what they're isolating, like the suspension of the LP12. No?
If by isolation feet you mean some sort of damping, then the surface upon which the component would sit wouldn't be stable. It would be wobbly. So the component would not be held steady, but would be allowed to move about. So when the sound waves hit the component (Radikal), it would move (vibrate). The component moving is what is to be avoided for good sound (less loss of musical information). So the component should be held steady (anchored) at a fixed point in space, but the stand holding it should also vibrate with as little energy as possible. It's the mass of the component that isolates from the vibrations imparted by the stand by damping.
 
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Newton John

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When my house is rebuilt I will be having my LP12 wall mounted. The LP12 will be powered by a machined Radikal depending on the length of the cable connecting the LP 12 and the Radikal I may have to wall mount the Radikal. Given the anti vibration properties attributed to the machined casing is there any benefit to be obtained that would justify attaching high quality isolating feet to the Radikal?

I have heard benefits from using Isoacoustic Pucks, etc, with Klimax components in general but haven't tried them with the Machined Radikal.

The only way to find out for sure if it works to give it a try.
 

Newton John

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If by isolation feet you mean some sort of damping, then the surface upon which the component would sit wouldn't be stable. It would be wobbly. So the component would not be held steady, but would be allowed to move about. So when the sound waves hit the component (Radikal), it would move (vibrate). The component moving is what is to be avoided for good sound (less loss of musical information). So the component should be held steady (anchored) at a fixed point in space, but the stand holding it should also vibrate with as little energy as possible. It's the mass of the component that isolates from the vibrations imparted by the stand by damping.

The surface on which the component sits is still stable, just not rigid. This approach may be counter intuitive, but it does work in some circumstances.

A good hifi stand will reduce the amount of vibrational energy and the inertia of the high mass Klimax case will minimise its effect on the electronics. However, that doesn't preclude Isoacoustic Pucks and the like reducing it further.
 
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akamatsu

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The surface on which the component sits is still stable, just not rigid. This approach may be counter intuitive, but it does work in some circumstances.
I needs to be rigid, per Linn, for best sound. I'm having trouble imagining a surface that isn't rigid but still provides stability. I'm finding that moving towards more rigid, more stable, and lighter weight results in less loss of musical information.

I can imagine a situation where a heavy piece of furniture with sides and back made of veritable sound boards, and maybe even with a center channel speaker sharing the same is used. In this circumstance, it might be advantageous to isolate the component from all that vibration via some sort of non-rigid device. But I would see this as a big compromise. But domestic considerations can't be bypassed sometimes. :)
 
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Newton John

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I needs to be rigid, per Linn, for best sound. I'm having trouble imagining a surface that isn't rigid but still provides stability. I'm finding that moving towards more rigid, more stable, and lighter weight results in less loss of musical information.

I can imagine a situation where a heavy piece of furniture with sides and back made of veritable sound boards, and maybe even with a center channel speaker sharing the same is used. In this circumstance, it might be advantageous to isolate the component from all that vibration via some sort of non-rigid device. But I would see this as a big compromise. But domestic considerations can't be bypassed sometimes. :)

You wouldn't have any trouble understanding if you saw Isoacoustic Pucks or Oreas supporting a component. The component doesn't move.
 

akamatsu

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The component doesn't move.
Yes. The component should move as little as possible. There's no practical way to measure this movement nor a way to perceive it. It's microscopic. So one must simply know what moves things towards more rigid, more stable, and lighter. Ideally, all this is accomplished by the rack. But as I said earlier, sometimes domestic considerations prevail, and compromises must be made. If isolation under the component is needed, I would try Blu-tack. It seems to isolate well, and not allow the component to move much at all. It's very cheap as a packet cost me about $6.
 

Paulssurround

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I have done a lot of exploration of vibration control devices and found profound benefits for them under a myriad of electronics and speakers

There are many brands of products out there that sell vibration control products, some more effective than others.

Every major HiFi shop in my city sell Isoacoustic Gaia’s, Oreas and Isopucks, including both of our Linn dealers. These are all highly recommended by the Linn dealers to try out.

Isoacoustic Gaia’s are now standard equipment on many high end speakers from a variety of manufacturers. I have personally heard the benefits of Isoacoustic Gaia’s under almost everything in Linn’s current speaker range, with stellar results in most cases.

Linn speakers that benefit from Isoacoustic Gaias include the Komris, 350’s in passive, activ, Katalyst or Organik, Akubariks, Akudoriks, Series 5 speakers, 140’s. Legacy Linn speakers such as 242’s, 225’s and other Linn speakers also benefit

Majik 109’s and Series 3 speakers benefit from Isoacoustic Oreas or Isoacoustic pucks placed under them.

Linn components that benefit from Isoacoustic Oreas and Isoacoustic pucks include the new NGDSM, NGKSH, machined Klimax components including Klimax Exaktboxes, Klimax Radikal, Lingo, Akurate level DSM/DS streamers, amps and Exaktboxes, Majik amps and streamers.

When placing Isoacoustic products under Linn components, it is worthwhile to compare the sound quality of them placed under the Linn feet compared to placing them directly under the chassis. There can be profound differences depending on the components.

‘There are some rack designs that already engineer vibration control into their design, so it is always best to try these vibration control devices to see whether they make a big difference in your system or not, with the engineered racks

What I can say is that these products have made an astonishing improvement in the sound quality of my Linn system.
 

Paulssurround

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You wouldn't have any trouble understanding if you saw Isoacoustic Pucks or Oreas supporting a component. The component doesn't move.
I fully agree with you.

If you mount well designed, engineered and built performance tires on a performance sports car you will see enhancements in handling, braking and cornering, compared to poorly designed or inappropriate tires for that particular vehicle. Yet most people might consider tires to be unstable, as they bend and twist with each movement as you accelerate, corner and brake while driving

Perhaps a good example is that Isoacoustic Gaia’s, Oreas and pucks are designed to absorb, damp and mitigate vibrations as speakers and electronics are played, at the very vibrational frequencies that could effect the sound quality of the music
 
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Newton John

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I fully agree with you.

If you mount well designed, engineered and built performance tires on a performance sports car you will see enhancements in handling, braking and cornering, compared to poorly designed or inappropriate tires for that particular vehicle. Yet most people might consider tires to be unstable, as they bend and twist with each movement as you accelerate, corner and brake while driving

Perhaps a good example is that Isoacoustic Gaia’s, Oreas and pucks are designed to absorb, damp and mitigate vibrations as speakers and electronics are played, at the very vibrational frequencies that could effect the sound quality of the music
Indeed, the standard feet fitted to the Klimax case by Linn have rubber pads attached, which presumably already do this job to some extent. So Linn have avoided total rigidity.

Your analogy is good. All we are doing with Isoacoustic feet is fitting better tyres. However, nothing changes in principle. We are not undermining Linn's fundamental design as Akamatsu fears, but rather enhancing it.

On the subject of putting things on top of other things :)

 
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Paulssurround

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Indeed, the standard feet fitted to the Klimax case by Linn have rubber pads attached, which presumably already do this job to some extent. So Linn have avoided total rigidity.

Your analogy is good. All we are doing with Isoacoustic feet is fitting better tyres. However, nothing changes in principle. We are not undermining Linn's fundamental design as Akamatsu fears, but rather enhancing it.

On the subject of putting things on top of other things :)


Well said!!! 👍🏻
 

Jail4CEOs2

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The Radikal doesn't really make music though, does it? It just assures the motor/platter is spinning smoothly at the correct speed? Most have found a difference in the machined case, so clearly there must be small vibration benefits along with the more pronounced ones of electrical isolation?
 
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akamatsu

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The Radikal doesn't really make music though, does it? It just assures the motor/platter is spinning smoothly at the correct speed? Most have found a difference in the machined case, so clearly there must be small vibration benefits along with the more pronounced ones of electrical isolation?
In my system, the Radikal 2 makes beautiful music. I also have a Urika II, so double duty for mine. I'm finding the main benefit of the Klimax case to be acoustic isolation (I upgraded from ARad to KRad). As a mechanical engineer, I have much interest in the mechanical engineering design that happens at Linn. I've taken their design concept and given it the best chance of success by minimizing vibrations at the circuits. This has been done by addressing the two pathways for vibrations to reach the circuits, these being airborne, and via the stand upon which the Radikal sits. Each step towards minimizing the vibration at the circuits has resulted in a rather profound decrease in loss of musical information. The potential for vibration reduction benefits is huge. Hold the Radikal as rock steady and movement free as possible. The efforts of the Linn mechanical engineers will come through in a big way.
 
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Ron.P

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It is my understanding that the purpose of isolation devices like Orbeas, VooDoo Isopods, etc is to absorb vibration that will, for example, travel up from the floor, thru the stand and to the component. Without the isolation, those vibrations travel right thru the component, making them anything but movement free. No?
 
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