Linn Owners

Cartridge weight

Ron.P

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Other than the obvious setting of VTF, what are the issues faced when using a cartridge that exceeds the tonearm mfr's max recommended cart. weight?
For example, on my Ekos SE, I read a max recommended weight of 9gm. If I go higher, do I need a heavier counterweight?
Thanks
Ron
 
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Moomintroll

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I would imagine so, at 9gm you’d already be over 50% heavier than a Kandid, that’s quite a difference. It might balance out, but you might be pushing it. The heavy Ekos SE counterweight isn’t expensive in the grand scheme of things, under £150 in the UK with pre-owned ones around £100. @ThomasOK will be more definitive.

’troll
 
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Nopiano

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Yes, typically you can’t balance the arm to zero if the cartridge is too heavy, so the only way to set VTF is with great care and scales. Not disastrous, but I don’t know if Linn offer alternative counterweights.
 
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Mr Kandid

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Other than the obvious setting of VTF, what are the issues faced when using a cartridge that exceeds the tonearm mfr's max recommended cart. weight?
For example, on my Ekos SE, I read a max recommended weight of 9gm. If I go higher, do I need a heavier counterweight?
Thanks
Ron
As been said by others the special heavy counterweight offered by linn is 40g more than standard and should balance out.
Or at least compensate enough to set with digital scales.
 

Ron.P

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As been said by others the special heavy counterweight offered by linn is 40g more than standard and should balance out.
Or at least compensate enough to set with digital scales.
Makes sense. Thanks for your reply.
 

Wenge1

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I run a Lyra Atlas (11.6g) in a Ekos Se using the heavier counterweight. I had no trouble balancing the arm and then using some scales to set the tracking force. To my ears, the results are sublime.
 

Ron.P

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I run a Lyra Atlas (11.6g) in a Ekos Se using the heavier counterweight. I had no trouble balancing the arm and then using some scales to set the tracking force. To my ears, the results are sublime.
That seems simple logic re balancing the arm and then setting vtf. Thanks for confirming with your actual experiences. I ordered a heavy counterweight thru my dealer and an Etna is sitting on a shelf waiting.
 
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ThomasOK

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Yes, I would recommend the heavy counterweight for the heavier cartridges. I have a customer who has used Koetsus in his Ekos SE/1 for years, either Urushi or Rosewood. You could balance it out with the normal counterweight but it was getting close to the end of the shaft. This is a problem because the farther you get the counterweight away from the bearings the more you increase the effective mass of the arm/cartridge. Having the effective mass in the wrong place can put the arm/cartridge resonance at a less ideal frequency with negative musical consequences. This is part of why shoving the counterweight as close as possible to the bearings and then compensating with the tracking force dial generally is not the most musical approach. It is also the main reason Linn tries to keep the weight of the MC cartridges around 7 grams.

When the heavy counterweight came out I bought one and took it over to my friend's house and reset his tonearm with it. We were both surprised at the musical improvement. He did not allow me to take it back off his arm! In the US it is about $225.
 

Ron.P

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Yes, I would recommend the heavy counterweight for the heavier cartridges. I have a customer who has used Koetsus in his Ekos SE/1 for years, either Urushi or Rosewood. You could balance it out with the normal counterweight but it was getting close to the end of the shaft. This is a problem because the farther you get the counterweight away from the bearings the more you increase the effective mass of the arm/cartridge. Having the effective mass in the wrong place can put the arm/cartridge resonance at a less ideal frequency with negative musical consequences. This is part of why shoving the counterweight as close as possible to the bearings and then compensating with the tracking force dial generally is not the most musical approach. It is also the main reason Linn tries to keep the weight of the MC cartridges around 7 grams.

When the heavy counterweight came out I bought one and took it over to my friend's house and reset his tonearm with it. We were both surprised at the musical improvement. He did not allow me to take it back off his arm! In the US it is about $225.
Thomas--Is there a "Sweet spot" for distance of the weight from the bearing?
 

ThomasOK

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Thomas--Is there a "Sweet spot" for distance of the weight from the bearing?
I don't know if you can generalize a sweet-spot for every cartridge with all the different weights and compliances out there. On an Ekos or Ekos SE I find the best thing to do is balance out the arm with the counterweight, dial the tracking force dial to the recommended tracking force, or to the middle of the recommended range (in the case of the Etna it appears that would be 1.67 grams), then using a digital scale readjust the counterweight so that the actual tracking force matches what is on the dial. After that dial the anti-skating to match if you have an Ekos SE/1 or SE with a little bias when set to 0, otherwise for older Ekos SE and Ekos 1 and 2 go about .3 grams above the tracking force.

Once you have achieved that listen to it and then try above and below the starting tracking force to see if it gets any more musical. If it is more musical at 1.72 try it at 1.70 to see if it gets better yet or worse. If worse try 1.75 (even if it is a little above the recommended range). Keep trying until you find the most musical setting, one or two hundredths of a gram can make a difference so don't be afraid to try them. When that has all gotten into focus then do the same thing with the anti-skating. The effects are more subtle but still audible, I find especially so on voices.

As an example I have found the Ekstatik to be most musical at 2.1 grams despite being recommended for 2.0 and the anti-skating at pretty much 2.05. With a Kandid or Krystal I find 1.75 for both tracking and anti-skating to be most musical. I think you will find with most cartridges that the counterweight will be a little back from the bearings - probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the way towards the bearing housing from the back of the stud. But always trust your ears and don't be afraid to try settings that are a little different from the manufacturer recommendations.
 
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Ron.P

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I don't know if you can generalize a sweet-spot for every cartridge with all the different weights and compliances out there. On an Ekos or Ekos SE I find the best thing to do is balance out the arm with the counterweight, dial the tracking force dial to the recommended tracking force, or to the middle of the recommended range (in the case of the Etna it appears that would be 1.67 grams), then using a digital scale readjust the counterweight so that the actual tracking force matches what is on the dial. After that dial the anti-skating to match if you have an Ekos SE/1 or SE with a little bias when set to 0, otherwise for older Ekos SE and Ekos 1 and 2 go about .3 grams above the tracking force.

Once you have achieved that listen to it and then try above and below the starting tracking force to see if it gets any more musical. If it is more musical at 1.72 try it at 1.70 to see if it gets better yet or worse. If worse try 1.75 (even if it is a little above the recommended range). Keep trying until you find the most musical setting, one or two hundredths of a gram can make a difference so don't be afraid to try them. When that has all gotten into focus then do the same thing with the anti-skating. The effects are more subtle but still audible, I find especially so on voices.

As an example I have found the Ekstatik to be most musical at 2.1 grams despite being recommended for 2.0 and the anti-skating at pretty much 2.05. With a Kandid or Krystal I find 1.75 for both tracking and anti-skating to be most musical. I think you will find with most cartridges that the counterweight will be a little back from the bearings - probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the way towards the bearing housing from the back of the stud. But always trust your ears and don't be afraid to try settings that are a little different from the manufacturer recommendations.
Great primer. Thanks. BTW--My friend with the Etna, unbeknownst to me but knownst to him had an unused Kandid. (He went straight to the Etna and then the Atlas on his Ekos SE.) So I returned his Etna and bought his Kandid for nearly nothing. I just finished installing it and all is wonderful again.
 
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pirov

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I'm late to this thread, but have obtained excellent results with a Lyra Etna Lambda SL (9.2g) mounted on an Ekos SE, using a Tigerpaw sKale counterweight (I don't think TP is still in business unfortunately). As well as enabling the counterweight to be positioned close to the fulcrum, the sKale 'incorporates an offset centre hole which serves to lower the centre of gravity of the mass further in line with the stylus and cantilever.' I've tried the @ThomasOK method (above), but have found the most musical results balancing the arm at zero, and setting VTF with scales at 1.7g.

https://www.tiger-paw.com/skale

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