dCS Benchmark Luxman DAC shootout with The Flash

DomT

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@TheFlash Nigel and I had a small shootout between three DACs. It was informal, non-scientific, and we used our ears. I am just going to give an overall impression that rather breakdown every track that we listened to and every difference and maybe Nigel will add a few thoughts.

Nigel has active ATC speakers and a dCS Puccini DAC. I have passive ATC speakers and a Luxman DA100 and Benchmark DAC2 and so I took my DACs to Nigel’s lovely home and drank his lovely coffee.

We first listened to Nigel’s system and I was surprised that it wasn’t as some parts of the internet would suggest. It was not bright, in your face, forward, lean, hyper detailed etc. Nigel’s room is different than mine but I immediately commented that the top end was smoother than at home. Maybe it was just the room?

We used Nigel’s full signal chain including the dCS Clock and his Mutec and just swapped out the DACs. We listened to well recorded recent music and good and badly recorded late seventies music.

We started with the Luxman DA100. There was a clear difference between the two DACs. The most obvious difference was the Puccini had a smoother top end. It also had tighter bass and also more detail in the midrange and this manifested itself by revealing more of the tone and timbre of instruments like acoustic piano. It also had more definition in the bass for example we were able to hear more of the top harmonics of bass guitar notes and impact on the strings.

I hadn’t planned on listening to the Benchmark and only brought it as it had more connection possibilities and so it was used from cold. In terms of sonic performance the Benchmark sat between the Luxman and the Puccini. In comparison to the Luxman the bass was tighter and the treble smoother but a little more detailed but the Benchmark didn't seem to equal the Puccini in any areas; we would need a more extended demo to find out.

What are my conclusions? There was a difference between the DACs. I have found for years that digital is fatiguing and have had to work hard on having a sympathetic amp and speakers for example I use a valve preamp with ATC speakers and solid state with Harbeth speakers; the ATCs are ok with no valve preamp but smoother with one. With the Puccini I wouldn’t need to make these considerations. The top end wasn’t rolled off it was just smoother and easier to listen to yet with more detail and would fit into a wider range of systems.

Did I prefer the Puccini? In many respects yes but it sounded different from what I have been hearing for decades and so it takes time to consider whether any fundamental change is desired or not. I would need more time with the Puccini to be sure that I had listened to enough music over a longer amount of time but I am actually considering buying one. The more textured midrange and smoother top end was compelling.

But we need to consider price and value. Clearly I would only consider secondhand. A new Benchmark DAC is c£2000 and the Puccini c£10,000. A secondhand Puccini is c£4000 and the clock is another £2000 or so. £6000 is still a hell of a lot of money for the amount of difference that is to be gained. And you would need a very transparent system to be able to hear all of the differences.

To some people it’s not even worth considering buying a Puccini. To others once they have heard the difference it’s difficult not to hear it and that difference is worth it regardless of the cost.

Nigel was an excellent and affable host, makes good coffee, and has a lovely home. We got to meet and that was worth it even if I don’t end up buying a Puccini.

There are two Puccinis on eBay right now that I am watching.
 
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simon g

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Thanks for that, Dom.

Don't forget the Puccini is now defunct (has been for some while) so can't be bought new. The Puccini is also a first class SACD/CD player, so much more than purely a DAC. The latest (and least costly!) player/DAC is the Rossini Apex at £28K.

If you're looking at the Puccini SACD player/DAC then the one with the U clock is the one to go for, if £6k+ is OK money wise. The other I did have some interest in myself. It is labelled as 220V, which raised some concerns hence I asked dcs for the provenance. It was a unit supplied to Greece. I wouldn't use a 220VAC unit on a UK 240VAC supply (indeed dcs recommends against this); it can be changed by dcs. Despite the info in the listing it has never been serviced at dcs. You could also perhaps consider a Debussy or Paganini DAC.

Your general feeling is correct. Diminishing returns kicks in big time with decent digital gear. The last bit of performance can be very costly. It's up to the listener to decide if worthwhile. Some gratuitous advice from me: don't get tempted by all the peripherals (upsamplers, clocks, et al) and cables, etc. Instead, spend the money on the best one box unit you can find that you like. Some on here spend fortunes on these peripherals and end up with digital front ends that are extremely costly. A cost which exceeds that of a first rate unit that might initially have been discounted because of cost! It's also always worth remembering that there is always something 'better' out there. The trick is to know where to stop

Having said all of that, as far as digital goes, my long experience has proved to me that dCs is where it's at, if you want the very 'best'.

I've now moved away form multi box systems, but my small box system now exceeds the performance of my old (more than half decent) bib multiple box system. I'm sure some of the improvements are down to simplicity.
 

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I'd seriously consider trying something NOS tube from Abbas, AN or SW1X in comparison before spanking £6k on what may well not sound as natural. IMO.
Few people know that the real original recording actually sounds like so those who don’t have a studio just need to guess about accurate, natural (add your own adjectives) no?
 

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I'd seriously consider trying something NOS tube from Abbas, AN or SW1X in comparison before spanking £6k on what may well not sound as natural. IMO.
I believe Abbas are made in Ukraine, if so, maybe a bit difficult to get new ones at the moment. But certainly worth trying if available. Maybe another bake-off to compare them?

I think a member near Stamford has one?
 
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Psilonaught

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Few people know that the real original recording actually sounds like so those who don’t have a studio just need to guess about accurate, natural (add your own adjectives) no?
All I'm suggesting is that you audition a tube NOS dac for comparison :)
 

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Few people know that the real original recording actually sounds like so those who don’t have a studio just need to guess about accurate, natural (add your own adjectives) no?
That maybe partly true but some do go to concerts and/or are musicians/piano tuners etc. so may know but it is what it sounds to the listener that matters.
As you found with digital you had to do quite a bit to get to sound to your taste.
The HiFi should not get in the way of the music.
 
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DomT

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Thanks for that, Dom.

Don't forget the Puccini is now defunct (has been for some while) so can't be bought new. The Puccini is also a first class SACD/CD player, so much more than purely a DAC. The latest (and least costly!) player/DAC is the Rossini Apex at £28K.

If you're looking at the Puccini SACD player/DAC then the one with the U clock is the one to go for, if £6k+ is OK money wise. The other I did have some interest in myself. It is labelled as 220V, which raised some concerns hence I asked dcs for the provenance. It was a unit supplied to Greece. I wouldn't use a 220VAC unit on a UK 240VAC supply (indeed dcs recommends against this); it can be changed by dcs. Despite the info in the listing it has never been serviced at dcs. You could also perhaps consider a Debussy or Paganini DAC.

Your general feeling is correct. Diminishing returns kicks in big time with decent digital gear. The last bit of performance can be very costly. It's up to the listener to decide if worthwhile. Some gratuitous advice from me: don't get tempted by all the peripherals (upsamplers, clocks, et al) and cables, etc. Instead, spend the money on the best one box unit you can find that you like. Some on here spend fortunes on these peripherals and end up with digital front ends that are extremely costly. A cost which exceeds that of a first rate unit that might initially have been discounted because of cost! It's also always worth remembering that there is always something 'better' out there. The trick is to know where to stop

Having said all of that, as far as digital goes, my long experience has proved to me that dCs is where it's at, if you want the very 'best'.

I've now moved away form multi box systems, but my small box system now exceeds the performance of my old (more than half decent) bib multiple box system. I'm sure some of the improvements are down to simplicity.
Simon thanks for the comments. I checked the Puccini manual which states that there is an internal setting to change 220v to 230/240 and so maybe this is not a problem?
703CC56C-18E0-44FA-B04E-92446C10E2F7.jpeg
 

DomT

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And just to add that Nigel had the Puccini set to DSD upsampling and I was wondering this morning whether this in particular was why the Puccini sounded so smooth? But maybe it was the dCS clock or the Mutec or it’s because if the Ring DAC or the output stage or any combination of the above.
 

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One problem with substituting a random component into someone else's well sorted system is that it is reasonably certainly going to be a poorer synergistic match with the rest of the system.

That's what we do - we carefully build a system of various components to work well together to provide the sort of sound we want. Just plunking someone else's choice of component into a system is quite unlikely to show it at its best.
... So I suspect the Luxman and Benchmark DACs weren't really being given a chance to properly strut their stuff.

Put the Puccini in your own system, then tweak the synergy into it, and see where you are and judge if the change is worth the financial outlay to you.
 

StingRay

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One problem with substituting a random component into someone else's well sorted system is that it is reasonably certainly going to be a poorer synergistic match with the rest of the system.

That's what we do - we carefully build a system of various components to work well together to provide the sort of sound we want. Just plunking someone else's choice of component into a system is quite unlikely to show it at its best.
... So I suspect the Luxman and Benchmark DACs weren't really being given a chance to properly strut their stuff.

Put the Puccini in your own system, then tweak the synergy into it, and see where you are and judge if the change is worth the financial outlay to you.
Yes I thinks a good point and makes comparing components difficult. Also different system and room. Some differences may also take some days to get used to.
 

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Sounds like fun, especially the coffee
I've used benchmark dac3 with active atcs(numerous models up to 100s) and using the benchmark as pre amp and to me sounded wonderful.
 

simon g

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Simon thanks for the comments. I checked the Puccini manual which states that there is an internal setting to change 220v to 230/240 and so maybe this is not a problem?
703CC56C-18E0-44FA-B04E-92446C10E2F7.jpeg
Yes, it's probably just a tap on the transformer. You may well be able to do this yourself, but I would get dCs to do it and service at the same time. That way you'll retain much more value in the machine as it will then say 240V and dcs will have a service record for it. The transport is very reliable but this player is just over 13 years old. Mech problems may be just around the corner. Plus the seller says it's been 'serviced'. He was probably told that by the person he bought it from; as it wasn't by dcs, who did it? I wouldn't go near anything which has been worked on by anyone other than dcs, others may feel differently.

On the DSD front, my present streamer/DAC can either be DSD or PCM (DSD done in a slightly different way than others). The difference is there but more pronounced on some recordings than others. After an initial period of trying settings out I now leave it on DSD and haven't thought about it since! (well, until this thread, that is)
 
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DomT

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One problem with substituting a random component into someone else's well sorted system is that it is reasonably certainly going to be a poorer synergistic match with the rest of the system.

That's what we do - we carefully build a system of various components to work well together to provide the sort of sound we want. Just plunking someone else's choice of component into a system is quite unlikely to show it at its best.
... So I suspect the Luxman and Benchmark DACs weren't really being given a chance to properly strut their stuff.

Put the Puccini in your own system, then tweak the synergy into it, and see where you are and judge if the change is worth the financial outlay to you.
I think that there is some merit in what you say. I don’t think that the Benchmark was out of place in Nigel’s system as it had some similarities to the Puccini but the Luxman sounded ‘worse’ than it does in my system with a valve preamp.

But it was an interesting demo as we had the same brand of speakers.

I think the main thing that screwed up the demo is that neither of us were wearing slippers; judging by photos many on here use slippers when listening to their systems 😜😜😜
 

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I think that there is some merit in what you say. I don’t think that the Benchmark was out of place in Nigel’s system as it had some similarities to the Puccini but the Luxman sounded ‘worse’ than it does in my system with a valve preamp.

But it was an interesting demo as we had the same brand of speakers.

I think the main thing that screwed up the demo is that neither of us were wearing slippers; judging by photos many on here use slippers when listening to their systems 😜😜😜
Mahabis "audiophile edition" - scientifically proven to improve sound quality :)
 

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I think that there is some merit in what you say. I don’t think that the Benchmark was out of place in Nigel’s system as it had some similarities to the Puccini but the Luxman sounded ‘worse’ than it does in my system with a valve preamp.

But it was an interesting demo as we had the same brand of speakers.

I think the main thing that screwed up the demo is that neither of us were wearing slippers; judging by photos many on here use slippers when listening to their systems 😜😜😜
Yes I find sheepskin slippers are the best, at least my feet are warm, maybe too hot for summer though.
 
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