Fuji vs Nikon

fordy

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Nov 29, 2006
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The 'pro' Nikon FX based lens choices, ie those lenses with enough quality to satisfy a D800 owner who knows how to use a D800 to achieve that quality are:from Nikon:

Primes.

24mm f1.4G ED

35mm f1.4G

50mm f1.4G

85mm f1.4 G

300mm f4 IF-ED

Zooms.

From Nikon:

AF-S 24-70 f2.8 G IF-ED

AFS 70-200 f2.8G VR11 IF-ED

(where 2 lenses off a similar focal length perform closely, I picked the less expensive)

From other makers.

Primes.

Zeiss Distagon 55mm T* OTUS 1.4 (this tested screamingly sharp on a D610 body...must have prime if you have the cash).

Zeiss APO Sonnar T* 135mm f2

Sigma 35mm f 1.4DG HSM

Zooms.

Sigma 18-35 f1.8 DC HSM.

There's lots more of course, but either IME or via testing, the above are the pinnacle of what's around at the moment for pure quality. None are cheap exactly, but some are reasonable used (though the Zeiss are too new to be around used yet I suspect).

I can see lots of advantages in running both a compact and a DSLR system, but no real logic behind equipping both systems with enough lenses and kit to do everything, and then not use that potential. My take on it is, as a photographer, I'd want the Fuji to do the compact walk around stuff, and the Nikon to do the specials...the photo's you know you want to take. Tripod jobs. On that basis I'd equip the Fuji with the sharpest of the standard zooms and ONE prime (35mm) for super compact work, and the Nikon with a quality mix, no expense spared, from 18-450.

(18-35/55/80/70-200/300+ 1.5 teleconverter).

On the other hand, if youre bank account is overflowing, run a pipeline to mine! :)
Thanks for this John, I was hoping you'd chime in. I think if I carry on with my Fuji system as the ideal travel cam, which is basically most of my shooting then I could find space, as you suggest, for a FF DSLR for special tasks for more considered activity. I think this is what I'm hankering after really and where I need to position such a move in my head. For instance the kids are getting active in sports and I wouldn't dream of taking the Fuji along for that sort of stuff (although I await to see if the X-T1 is going to be capable in this specific area). In fact just going down to the park and trying to capture the kids having fun is a futile excercise with the Fuji's so I know something that can track fast moving objects is something I'd benefit from. Ditto for motorsports, the X-Pro1 with 55-200 at 200mm missed more than it caught at the Fuji 6 hours last year (and to be fair, exactly what I expected). I was up the Tokyo tower last week and while I'm quite pleased with some of the cityscapes I captured with the 14mm (coming to the picture thread in due course), I would have loved to have shot this on a much higher res sensor... Horses for courses obviously.

Re the lenses on a FF Nikon though, I've just had a look through Marks Flickr stream and checked the EXIF's to see what he's been using over the last few years on his D800 and it is mostly AF-D primes, nothing especially exotic and ultra expensive for the most part and no-one would argue the quality (although in many ways as soon as you see one of his images, you fall for it straight away and all thoughts of critical pixel peeping go away :D ). Same for Scott who takes most of his images on a 24/2.8D on his D600 and we are all loving his sublime output too. A FF Nikon with AF-D lenses is then clearly a viable way to go, especially if I was to switch to lightroom and utilise the lens correction profiles to get the best out of them.

 

rockmeister

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Jul 24, 2005
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John
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  1. No
True. I was just listing my collected thoughts (after a few years reading and experimenting for myself) on what might provide the ultimate in sharpness if that's what you want. I think this stuff is good to know, but I would buy lenses that were 'close enough' which suited my pics as a prime factor. For your sports day for example, I think I'd be looking at a used D3 with the 70-200 f2.8 and a monopod maybe.

Anyway, enjoy what will be a splendid journey. Looking forward to more great pics soon! I think the XT-1 with a sharp standard zoom might well be a real keeper:^

 

rockmeister

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John
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That also prioritises sharpness which is a third of the story besides noise and depth of field.
If I were really going into details, I'd say that lens quality is mostly about sharpness edge to edge, control of unwanted artifacts like chromatic aberration and flare, freedom from vignetting, build quality and weather proofness. I'm not sure how noise is a function of lens performance? And as for DOF, as Mike explained, it really is only a function of focal length and sensor size, and not a lens quality issue at all.

The lenses I listed (none from a list published by Nikon, which I have not seen) are either from my direct experience (hired or borrowed) or from tests at DPReview, DXoMark, Thom Hogan, SLR gear.com or AP. So just a summary of what's around now. I am totally unconvinced by any 'old' lens really standing next to a modern design in edge to edge sharpness. I owned a Zeiss T* 50 in the past and center was excellent. In reality, about as good as todays D or G Nikon 50's, but at the edges? :nup: Modern Zeiss lenses walk all over it, they really do.

 

HectorHughMunro

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Oct 29, 2006
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Noise isn't a lens issue but it is a reason to go FF regardless of whether you're using D or G lenses.

Depth of field is an issue because you're forced in to wider lenses with smaller sensors. You could solve that with a wider aperture but no one makes the equivalent of a fast fifty for APSC since you'd need a 32mm in less than than the f/1.4 which is currently the fastest available af lens for that format.

 

rockmeister

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true. I think the advantages outweigh that for me, but if it's an issue, then FF must be the solution.

 

Mark LJ

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May 4, 2006
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I like the balance that the Nikon D800 and the X-Pro1 gives me. The only change I would make in this at the moment is for the X-Pro1 to be weather sealed and have better AF. Funnily enough the XT-1 would give me that. I was considering the 56 but for the time being I'll stick with the 60. If I want to play with DOF then I can just use the D800 and one of the various sharper lenses I have for that. End of the month I'll be ordering the Fuji 14 and after that the 23.

As regards the recommendations for the D800 I'm not sure I'd agree. I've used the 24mm 2.8D and it was sharp corner to corner for landscapes at a normal aperture. Likewise the 50 1.8D is stunning from 5.6 - 8 and I've done some very big prints from it. I think the 85 1.4 just shades the 1.8 for sharpness but down at f4 - 5.6 the 1.8G is absolutely superb. I also have the 20 2.8D which is a very recent acquisition and for straight forward landscapes down at f8 is lovely. The big attraction of that over my 16-35 is the lack of bulk - easy to wander for a few miles with the D800/20mm in your hand, not so the 16-35mm which was a ridiculously bulky thing. I seem to have gone off zooms anyway. I did try the 28 2.8D and I have to say I wasn't impressed. The 35 2D was nice but not the sharpest lens I've ever used.

I have used or owned the 50 1.4G, 14-24, 16-35, 70-200 2.8 VRII, 70-200 f4, 24 1.4G, 60mm 2.8G, 105 f2 DC, 24-70 2.8 (ridiculously bulky), 17-35 2.8 in addition to the others mentioned. The 105 was probably my favourite - so much so I'm not sure why I sold it. The plan was to replace it with the 85 1.8G and the 135 f2 DC and I'm halfway there.

 

rockmeister

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Jul 24, 2005
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John
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The expensive zooms are huge and heavy I agree.

I guess the real point of spending money on a 1.4 or even a 1.8/f2 if we are talking telephoto, is that they work at those apertures, and you need to use the thing regulkarly, wide open. Otherwise there's little point and i agree that it would be wiser to spend less and use a slower lens stopped down to it's sweet spot. Nikon (and Sigma in my limited experience) tend to design their lenses to be sharpest when closed down 2 or 3 stops, so if f5.6 or f8 works for you with regard to DofF then why waste money? The only other issue I can think of is weather sealing. One or two of the kit type D lenses are def NOT water proof, as I found out to my cost, and rebuilds to clean/dry out the insides of a lens cost more than the lens. I now carry plastic bags and elastic bags. :)

I am interested in your thoughts on the 105...a great portrait and landscape detail length at a decent cost, esp used. Hm.

 

Mark LJ

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The 105 was stunning John - I think it would suit your style down to the ground. Beautifully built and the DC settings let you play with bokeh almost to the point of soft focus.

I sold it to a pal - http://www.flickr.com/photos/polarisandy/ - have a look at some of his portraits with it and you realise the quality. Couple of landscapes of mine with it - as you say the detail aspect of a bit of landscape is picked up perfectly by this.





Common sense might have indicated that I should have kept this and got the 70-200 to supplement it but I fancied the 85/135 combo.

 

f1eng

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Dec 13, 2009
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Frank
I think the question of lens quality is a complex one (a bit like hifi). My personal preference is for lenses with the highest flare resistance. I am totally uninterested by a sharp lens which flares like a bastard.

Then there is overall sharpness. A lot of lenses (particularly fast ones) are quite a bit sharper in the centre than further out. Most non-macro lenses have field curvature too. That means that taking a picture of a wall, say, to check sharpness is bound to disappoint since not all the wall can be in focus at the same time.

This is a big concern for some. It doesn't bother me much. I very rarely take planar subjects which need to be in focus over the whole frame, and when I do I use a macro lens ;-) .

If I am shooting faces wide open with a fast short telephoto I am interested in DoF control but, frankly, if the edges are a bit soft almost everything out there is going to be oof anyway so boke is massively more important to me than sharp across the frame.

For landscapes I usually stop down for DoF then the problems of field curvature and difference in sharpness across the frame are largely (usually) resolved by the extra DoF.

So for me, with fast primes, no flare please, sharp over as much of the frame as possible but the centre is the important bit, nice boke.

Also autofocus isn't that big a deal for me apart from grandchildren pictures. With a fast lens I don't find the autofocus always quickly focuses on the part of the scene -I- want in focus. If I dick about moving focus points about it takes as long as manual focus.

I don't much like zooms anyway. Even the fast ones are slow by prime standards and they are all bulky and heavy. They usually flare more than primes. I have got zooms but find I only use them rarely.

As far as Nikon and Fuji are concerned I have both but tend to use the Fuji most since, as a tool to use I enjoy it much more. OTOH if I am taking pictures of wildlife the Nikon has the lenses and Fuji doesn't...

 

f1eng

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Do Fuji lenses max out at 200mm ?
So far yes. The X-system is completely new so they have produced the most used focal lengths first.

A Super tele zoom is planned for the end of this year. The X-Pro 1 I have feels a bit strange with even the 200 zoom (300 35mm film equivalent) but I imagine the new X-T1 will bring a bit more urgency for longer lenses.

So far I use my Nikon DSLR for long lenses.

 

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