Horn sound

i_should_coco

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There's lots of discussion on horns these days and lots of systems being constructed, but I'm wondering what attracts people to them? Or indeed turns them away.

I think to a lot of people the 'horn sound' is used to describe a stereotype of a dynamic, but slightly shouty or honky presentation. I guess when horn systems are bad, obviously bad than direct radiator types, i.e. obviously shouty and coloured. I wonder if many people base their prejudice against horns on this, having only heard poor ones.

When people who visit tell me my system doesn't really sound like a horn system, this is a compliment, the last thing I want it to sound is like the stereotype above.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

i_should_coco

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To expand, I think a good speaker is a good speaker, a horn system should be a good speaker, but with much higher efficiency. I don't see why they should have a 'sound' hence the slight puzzlement as to what it actually means?

 

HoopsOnToast

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The main thing I have noticed about horns, even in my 'small' system (just mid/tweeter from ~600Hz+) is the dynamics and feeling of volume, even at low volumes. If that makes sense.

Effortless, comes to mind.

 

i_should_coco

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The main thing I have noticed about horns, even in my 'small' system is the dynamics and feeling of volume, even at low volumes. If that makes sense.Effortless, comes to mind.
Ah, yes, that is certainly a characteristic of the good ones. :^ In comparison, must speakers sound like they're trying too hard. Is it a fundamental characteristic of horns, though? Perhaps it is due to the much better control of driver excursion and therefore distortion.

 
B

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Good horns don't sound like horns, people frequently comment that when visiting here, like amplifiers there are good and bad designs of valve and solid state, I like some 'box speaker' designs a lot, it's all in the implementation.

 

craigmclellan

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The only horns I've ever listened to for a prolonged period (not the kind of horns people would think of when you say horns) are the Klipschorn.

They're good, but I found it too bright and preferred the Yamaha NS-1000M. Hence why, 7 years later, I now own NS-1000M.

 

paulf-2007

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As Rob said effortless, also dynamic, I think he said that too. Most people that visit me, whom are not into hi fi, I would add, say " its very clear isn't it " Mmmmm........ yes but its more than that.

What does your horn set up comprise of Pete?

Although not horn loaded my 15" bass is something that's hard to replicate with small drivers.

 

i_should_coco

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IMG_6655_800.jpg~original


Although the mid-horns are now circular Le Cleac'h rather than elliptical (only because the E-JMLC don't fit the S2).

 

anubisgrau

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One of the most disturbing moments in my recent audio experience was to find out that the top YG Acoustic speaker (Anat I think) driven with a top Krell amplification sounded totally good horn-like to me. Efortless dynamics, realistic tone, pressurized room. It just reminded me that a good speaker is a good speaker, no matter if it has a trumpet or not.

 

Tune

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One of the most disturbing moments in my recent audio experience was to find out that the top YG Acoustic speaker (Anat I think) driven with a top Krell amplification sounded totally good horn-like to me. Efortless dynamics, realistic tone, pressurized room. It just reminded me that a good speaker is a good speaker, no matter if it has a trumpet or not.
I could count the number of acceptable horn based systems I've heard on the fingers of my left hand and all of those cost an almighty amount of money.

Possibly the reason for people imagining a "sound" that relates to their experience of horns is the number of people and companies that simply get it horribly wrong in the interests of supposed dynamics.

To be honest, I am often shocked at how you get horn like dynamics from many non horn loaded loudspeakers these days. The truth is there are good loudspeakers and bad ones and it matters not really how they are made. The only real difference with horns is that they take up a huge amount of real estate and can be powered by flea like amplifers.

But they are inherently narrow band transducers so the complexity in developing an acceptable system without massive compromise is horrendous.

People do see them as cool though. For me, a good horn system will sound very much like big direct radiators.

 

RobHolt

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My joint favourite loudspeaker of all time is the Impulse H2 which I happily used for the best part of a decade.

The positives were scale, unfettered dynamics, no sense of strain and ease of drive.

Negatives, and I think these would hold for many wide bandwidth horn systems is the necessity for multiple drivers of very good design to adequately cover the range, with the attendant difficulties of integration and lack of point source this has to bring. You've got to have at least three crossover points and must integrate a range of physically large drivers covering a considerable expanse, certainly if you want any real bass.

Of course you can mix n match as with the Impulse which had front horn loaded mid, direct radiator HF and a quasi reflex/horn bass. Or Tannoy with the HF horn and direct radiator bass. I've also used various Lowther systems over the years and found them a very mixed bag. Great in places, poor in others.

Very high sensitive brings as many problems as it solves IMO.

A very high premium is placed on system noise performance, which ironically should make them best suited for use with very quiet, low gain SS amplifiers yet they often get paired with valves for some reason.

But I agree with Pete -

To expand, I think a good speaker is a good speaker, a horn system should be a good speaker, but with much higher efficiency.
Edit - thinking about this some more and specifically on the question of why some people have a negative view of horns, I think much of this comes down to the difficultly of getting enough mid-low bass from boxes which many find domestically acceptable. I'm minded of Tony L's observations with his Kipsch Lascala before he added subs. Those have nothing below 50hz and are already down considerably at that point. This throws the mid in relief causing it to sound fast and immediate but also shouty and forward. The problem isn't the mid horn, it's the lack of balancing output below it.

So I wonder if the negative observations of many 'horn' loudspeakers is simply that they are too small.

 

andreweast

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Having owned La Scalas for a short time I found that one thing horns can do like no other speaker is get the natural dynamic projection of an instrument; not easy to describe, but the sense of the instrument almost leaping forward, without sound brash or pushy. I've rarely heard a saxophone sound so convincing, but it's perhaps not surprising that a horn should sound best coming through a horn.

 

gjm

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My first experience of horns put me off them for years. Honky, and sounded a little like someone with a bad cold. Ain't gonna have crap like that in my system!

However, that was a bad experience. Properly or even just well-implemented horn systems are a wonderful thing, and typically more sensitive than 'box' loudspeakers they allow use of lower-powered tube amps, which I have come to like a lot. The combination is superb, and lends itself to a DIY approach, so more fun. (IMHO)

In terms of sound, good horns just seem to sound more 'natural' (to me). Bigger horn systems may do orchestral and large-scale music really well, but my experience has been with smaller horn systems. These have introduced a level of reality to music listening, particularly with recordings by smaller groups or soloists, and especially acoustic recordings.

Coco - your system looks so much tidier than I recall! :)

 

AmDismal

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Only horn speakers can have the dynamic scale of real music. It kinda ends there. For me, all other hifi falls into the category of "a bit shit", nothing personal :^

 

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