HOW DO YOU JUDGE IMPROVEMENTS

[Gizza]

Thank you so much for the details, as another slow typer I feel really bad that in the meantime I took the easy way out and bought some speakers that don't mind being near walls... More Q Acoustics, but Active 400s this time, with a switch on the back for if they are near walls or in corners. And nice work on the carpentry!

That's great, a result! Enjoy!

 

[pjon05]

That's great, a result! Enjoy!

Thank you, only got them last week so still driving myself crazy fiddling with settings and trying different streaming providers and methods (I thought it was supposed to be more easy than the old vinyl days?) but they do seem to be very good.

 

[Gizza]

Thank you, only got them last week so still driving myself crazy fiddling with settings and trying different streaming providers and methods (I thought it was supposed to be more easy than the old vinyl days?) but they do seem to be very good.

The thing is, we now have more choices :- a myriad of digital devices, streaming services, settings within software, operating systems, dsp, etc. This gives us more to obsess over. I think I'm pretty much there now, although I'm wondering whether an upgrade from my 20 year old dac to a current offering might be worthwhile, after hearing one in a friend's system recently.

 

[lowendall]

These days I have more or less given up trying, the last couple of shop demos were non conclusive for me leading to me feeling quite disenfranchised by the process. similarly when I got the 'better'? (more costly more like), stuff home for a trial. Swapping in over £10k of gear of the same manufacturer as my current gear gave no discernable benefit to me.

The only HiFi search process I actually enjoyed was trying different loud speakers which ranged from bordering on unlistenable to 'good enough'.

What I have learnt is that the acoustics of my room are by far the most significant factor affecting the sound of my system and not the equipment, which I suspect goes a long way to explaining why feel as I do about my first paragraph.

I now tend to base most of my decisions on features I require, at least I know what I am gaining for my money.

Ten grand swop up is plenty of beer vouchers I wonder what the shop selling it might have thought how things would improve , must be very hard to sell posh high cost hifi for a living . Unless you got a nice book full of connections with spare money and life style systems sort of things etc .

 

[Leif]

To get sound quality improvement, especially after having a few badly designed loudspeaker, I buy speakers that measure flat (or near flat) on-axis with smooth directivity, low distortion and resonances. This combination is giving me accuracy, good sound and pleasure of listening to music. Same for dac, preamp and headphone amp. Very low noise, jitter and distortion, with perfect linearity and high power amp.

I recently discovered that components that are as neutral as possible, with an even measured frequency response, will produce a good system. I look for a system that is enjoyable with all genres of music and speech, at a relatively modest price. It is just a hifi system, with all the limitations inherent in trying to record the music faithfully, and then reproduce it using two small sound sources in a small living room.

I have found some YouTube reviews very useful as a rough guide, and t’Internet for measurements. Magazine reviews are often worse than useless.

 

[Billz]

I know I have improved my system if I don’t want to turn it off and go to bed.

 

[savvypaul]

I know I have improved my system if I don’t want to turn it off and go to bed.

This. This. This.

 

[dari]

I recently discovered that components that are as neutral as possible, with an even measured frequency response, will produce a good system. I look for a system that is enjoyable with all genres of music and speech, at a relatively modest price. It is just a hifi system, with all the limitations inherent in trying to record the music faithfully, and then reproduce it using two small sound sources in a small living room.

I have found some YouTube reviews very useful as a rough guide, and t’Internet for measurements. Magazine reviews are often worse than useless.

Yeah. I would go for science and research, not voodoo

 

[Von Krolock]

As the OP says, getting high frequencies right seems to be difficult.
A few headaches and mistakes in the past with early metal dome tweeters and clinical amps
but the natural reaction to go for a 'warm' sound doesn't cut it either.
There are some good designs around now without harsh, peaky treble but with extension & clarity.

 

[Camverton]

I know I have improved my system if I don’t want to turn it off and go to bed.

Quite so, the only measurement that really matters is how late you go to bed!

I find it difficult to predict in advance which bits of kit will have the listen ‘til dawn effect. Some finest measuring systems have had me switching off and going to bed early so I don’t find measurements a particularly useful metric, although maybe a good starting point.

In the last analysis I find the best hifi is one that doesn’t sound so much like hifi as music. Not easy to find real improvements and I think we all respond to different cues to get us into the music and away from the “sound”. For me it is very good resolution of all those little details such as the way a cello string vibrates or the resonances from a piano. The snag is that these details have to be reproduced very cleanly or they quickly turn into a coarse distraction. Mostly it is about the way the speakers interact with the room in such a way that it is not obvious that I am listening to a loudspeaker as such.

 

[Camverton]

Yeah. I would go for science and research, not voodoo

Is that the video where he slags of a Martin Logan speaker which scored poorly compared to a Harman model. Remind me, who sponsored the research? Unfortunately his research paid no attention to how a Martin Logan needs to be set up and thus they were doomed to fail.

Of course, much of what he says is of great value but it does illustrate that we can’t place blind faith in anyone.

Much the same with another site that tested and reviewed Chord’s m scaler without using it with an optimal partnering DAC, and not listening to it properly because the reviewer didn’t “believe” in upscaling.

I suppose the lesson is to be cautious of all our dogmas, keep an open mind and listen for oneself wherever possible.

 

[MusicMan76]

For me this can be complex. If I've made a lot of changes to the system in a short window it's hard to judge improvements from a previous time. In more recent years I've leaned that I very definitely like Class A - A/B amps. I know brands across other components I like from what I don't like. So with those main components right, I've gone after lowering the ingest of noise or other unwanted impacts on sound quality to allow said components to be performing at their best. I do get DC leakage via mains, so have taken care of that. You do get ingest of noise via the crappy router your broadband provider gives you, so I have a switch from SOtM that takes care of that. Law of diminishing returns can kick in at various levels....in my system, I'd need to spend at least double, probably more to get a decent jump in performance, but then you are into room limitations and other issues like affordability......at some point, you need to just kick back, crack another beer open and then move your attention to finding good music.......enjoy your investment at what ever level that may be.

 

[hiesteem]

The best way I know on how to judge improvements is get a second receipt for the wife.

 

[Jag]

I measure SQ by the number of foot taps per minute, someone else counts and I do the listening

 

[dave]

I replaced my valve preamp with another. It sounded fine, just like its predecessor, but over the months something not quite right, but can't put finger on what it is, just a little discomfort. Replaced with previous preamp, sounds just the same but the uncomfortable quality, gone. Riddle me that.

 

[Von Krolock]

I measure SQ by the number of foot taps per minute, someone else counts and I do the listening

Getting off yer arse and 'dancing' is truly cathartic.

 

[ROOG]

Ten grand swop up is plenty of beer vouchers I wonder what the shop selling it might have thought how things would improve , must be very hard to sell posh high cost hifi for a living . Unless you got a nice book full of connections with spare money and life style systems sort of things etc .

I presume they do as they are still in the business of selling posh HiFi.

bit like fancy brand watches, they tell the time just like a £5 digital watch from a garage, possibly less accurate but that doesn’t stop people from wanting to own a prestigious branded watch.

 

[lowendall]

Is that the video where he slags of a Martin Logan speaker which scored poorly compared to a Harman model. Remind me, who sponsored the research? Unfortunately his research paid no attention to how a Martin Logan needs to be set up and thus they were doomed to fail.

Of course, much of what he says is of great value but it does illustrate that we can’t place blind faith in anyone.

Much the same with another site that tested and reviewed Chord’s m scaler without using it with an optimal partnering DAC, and not listening to it properly because the reviewer didn’t “believe” in upscaling.

I suppose the lesson is to be cautious of all our dogmas, keep an open mind and listen for oneself wherever possible.

i had a set of panels frm martin logan , they just did lovely string and body like no other speakers i had heard at that time, or since, but its just my ears, mine had a littl 8 inch bass speakers in the bottom , worke quiet well as well, i miss them, but i dont have a system or space for them, if i di d i would look for a pair in a heart beat, but i need a lottoery win to move house etc, ,.they died and that was that,.

 

[CnoEvil]

I came across this article by Peter Qvortrup called "Are you on the road to audio hell?". I find the head of AN both Controversial and Interesting, which makes this a good, and at times, uncomfortable read.

He talks about how to evaluate a system, using "Comparison by Contrast" instead of the flawed "Comparison by Reference".

https://www.audionote.co.uk/_files/ugd/3e7c3b_5da8bdfea9024ff3be5ca2c536a6c0a5.pdf

Love or hate his ideas, he makes great sounding systems.....and this (interesting but controversial) article is tangentially related: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/01/25/peter-qvortrup-high-fidelity-the-decline-of-the-decades/

 

[uzzy]

Great question. There is no one answer it will be whatever works for you.

Selling the stuff for a number of years gave me the opportunity to assess what I like and what i do not like in systems.

My method is I only change something when I come home, having listened to someone else's system, and am disatisfied with the sound I am getting.

One thing to always remember though is, if you think the sound is off (the treble is not right or the bass is not as it should be etc.) put on an album you know to be brilliantly recorded and see if the perceived problem still exists. A lot of times it can be we have been listening to sub par recordings and think our systems are performing below par, only to find the system is great but the recordings were sub par.

Perhaps I am odd (well you lot probably think I am) but my last major change was my loudspeakers over 20 years ago now, I have used the same cartridge for over 40 years on an arm and turntable nearly as old. I have tried other stuff, visited many people to listen to their systems and attended many shows .. but I just love the sound I get and so nowt gets changed (until that view changes).

I have been thinking of changing the speaker leads though, they run from the amp outside the house and back in the other end of the lounge so perhaps they have degraded due to the weather changes and UV light but there again I may not lol