How low does it go ?

mikeoz

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...meaning Rock music typically played through your hi-fi...

Getting close to identifying the acoustic issues with my lounge. Turns out there are room modes around 35hz and speaker boundary interface issues around 55hz (the sound bounces off the back wall and cancels out the sound coming directly from the speaker). Great news - this information has really made my day.

So I can treat the latter with bass traps and panels behind the speakers / or the former with massive bass traps which will also deal with the 55hz issue to some extent (at greater expense including a divorce when the Mrs finds out what I've done)

I don't listen to Organ music or Tubas so I'm not sure if I really care about the 35hz issue. Anyone know (ball park) how low a typical rock band (heavy/ metal) is recorded on CD to help me decide between a rock and a hard place.

btw I've already done loads of reading on this subject - and am rapidly losing the will to live :)

Thanks, Mike

 

sparkmeister

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However, it appears you use a digital source, so I guess the real question is how much is cut off the bottom end in digital music?

 

Nick Brown

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Frequency of the low E string on a standard tuned (EADG) 4 string bass is 41Hz. For an extended range bass,5 or 6 string tuned BEADG© the low B comes in around the 31Hz mark. Some rock bass players use the drop D tuning and in that case the low D is around 37Hz. All values to nearest rounded whole numbers.

 

f1eng

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However, it appears you use a digital source, so I guess the real question is how much is cut off the bottom end in digital music?
Digital goes down to DC and AFAIK there is no need to truncate the bass in digital, unlike for vinyl.

 

themadlatvian

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Frequency of the low E string on a standard tuned (EADG) 4 string bass is 41Hz. For an extended range bass,5 or 6 string tuned BEADG© the low B comes in around the 31Hz mark. Some rock bass players use the drop D tuning and in that case the low D is around 37Hz. All values to nearest rounded whole numbers.
In comparison with organ music and some electronic bass (such as Yello), rock music only uses the lower mid bass by comparison. The bottom C of the typical Bach music organ will be 16 foot pitch (32hz), but most large cathedral organs have 32 foot stops which go down to 16hz. Hull City Hall and the Royal Albert Hall both have 64 foot gravissimi which descend to 8hz!

That's not to say that you don't benefit from having a deep bass response when listening to rock music - while the fundamental pure low guitar E might only be 41hz, there are often lower frequencies present in the overall texture caused by difference patterns (i.e. the interaction of notes between themselves).

:^

 
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Diapason

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In comparison with organ music and some electronic bass (such as Yello), rock music only uses the lower mid bass by comparison. The bottom C of the typical Bach music organ will be 16 foot pitch (32hz), but most large cathedral organs have 32 foot stops which go down to 16hz. Hull City Hall and the Royal Albert Hall both have 64 foot gravissimi which descend to 8hz!That's not to say that you don't benefit from having a deep bass response when listening to rock music - while the fundamental pure low guitar E might only be 41hz, there are often lower frequencies present in the overall texture caused by difference patterns (i.e. the interaction of notes between themselves).

:^
:goodone:

Plus, if you listen to live music of any sort, a lot of the "atmosphere" is often to be found in lower frequencies. Not sure if that would be affected by room modes, but it's nice to have it.

 

f1eng

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:goodone: Plus, if you listen to live music of any sort, a lot of the "atmosphere" is often to be found in lower frequencies. Not sure if that would be affected by room modes, but it's nice to have it.
Very true!

 

Vinyl Art

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In comparison with organ music and some electronic bass (such as Yello), rock music only uses the lower mid bass by comparison. The bottom C of the typical Bach music organ will be 16 foot pitch (32hz), but most large cathedral organs have 32 foot stops which go down to 16hz. :^
We had one of those 16Hz jobs at my old school and under the hands and feet of Peter Crompton the pews could be moved as the lower bass shook the building,....fantastic.

 

Clubsport911

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but most large cathedral organs have 32 foot stops which go down to 16hz. Hull City Hall and the Royal Albert Hall both have 64 foot gravissimi which descend to 8hz!
Brilliant. Any lower than that and we are talking about major organ disruption !

Seriously, I would love to hear that in action.... got my curiosity aroused.

 

mikeoz

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Thanks guys all interesting stuff.

Putting the measuring equipment to one side my ear suggests there's a lack of bass energy - rather than booming lower frequencies with this set up. Even with the Wilsons there is a something missing (to a lesser or greater extent) when I listen to rock music compared to the sound in previous rooms I've lived in.

I'm tempted to concentate on fixing the 50-60hz 'hole' as this is consistent with what I'm hearing although it's a risk if I splash out on 3 mid sized (although still bloody big) corner traps that don't solve the problem.

 

Clubsport911

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This made me think...

I was at a fellow Wammer's recently to purchase something and could hardly behold the kit on show. It was very impressive - Krells, £20k TT, Valves, cables like copper pipes, supertweeters, mains generators and a sweet pair of Focals glaring down at me. :notworthy:

Sitting down to listen, I noticed almost no bass - at all. :dunno: Hmmmm. Standing up and moving to one or other speaker, the bass returned.

Satisfied from my days as an audio engineer and taking no longer than 15 seconds to hear it, I calmly announced:- "Your speakers are out of phase"....

Silence...

"er...are you sure ?"

"yes." so we called in the plumber, swapped one of the speaker connection and Voila - the bass returned (along with the imaging)

I was a little surprised that near on £50k (more ??) of kit, so carefully selected could be so fundamentally mis-connected and I'm not saying you have either, but.... perhaps worth a try ?

Here's some easy s/w to check use your iplop perhaps...

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Rgds

 

themadlatvian

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Brilliant. Any lower than that and we are talking about major organ disruption ! Seriously, I would love to hear that in action.... got my curiosity aroused.
Absolutely fantastic in the flesh, so to speak.

And if you are not careful it turns you into a complete bass-head as well!

It is one of the reasons that I find it difficult to live without speakers which properly go down to the lowest octaves.

:^

 
S

scruffybitch

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try moving the furniture around. Would an extra chair or bean bag do the required job ? Pile up some pillows, cushions, duvets etc and see if it makes any difference ?

 

i_should_coco

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This made me think...I was at a fellow Wammer's recently to purchase something and could hardly behold the kit on show. It was very impressive - Krells, £20k TT, Valves, cables like copper pipes, supertweeters, mains generators and a sweet pair of Focals glaring down at me. :notworthy:

Sitting down to listen, I noticed almost no bass - at all. :dunno: Hmmmm. Standing up and moving to one or other speaker, the bass returned.

Satisfied from my days as an audio engineer and taking no longer than 15 seconds to hear it, I calmly announced:- "Your speakers are out of phase"....

Silence...

"er...are you sure ?"

"yes." so we called in the plumber, swapped one of the speaker connection and Voila - the bass returned (along with the imaging)

I was a little surprised that near on £50k (more ??) of kit, so carefully selected could be so fundamentally mis-connected and I'm not saying you have either, but.... perhaps worth a try ?

Here's some easy s/w to check use your iplop perhaps...

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Rgds
It's more common than you might think! I think you should ame and shame captain cloth ears.

 

mikeoz

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Mar 23, 2010
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Mike
try moving the furniture around. Would an extra chair or bean bag do the required job ? Pile up some pillows, cushions, duvets etc and see if it makes any difference ?
I already have a 2ft wide 6ft tall bass trap that makes very little difference. Unfortunately if the room modes are at very low frequencies you need a seriously big bass trap - 1 or 1.2 metres wide / ceiling height - to make a difference. Furnture, etc can help but only at much higher frequencies. Apparently I need 3 of these big boys for my L shaped lounge :(

I thought about some kind of electronic solution - might have a look into that.

 

moggy58

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mirange.jpg


Google, freaquency of instruments, lots of info.

 

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