Import duty/ customs stuff.

[The Abbot]

Hi chaps-

would anyone know, if I buy a pair of tweeters from nl ( https://www.soundimports.eu/en/ ), & with shipping it's 141€ meaning £120.. would I be having to pay some dastardly import tax/ duty fee?

Thanks, Abbot

 

[MF 1000]

As a minimum you will pay VAT @20% plus any extra duty costs ….I’ve seen estimates at a similar amount fir duty …so around £50 in total

 

[Jazid]

...if you get caught. Better to presume you will, but some people get lucky. Another benefit of Brexit I'm sorry to say.

 

[bencat]

At £120 this is below the threshold for Duty but as noted you will still have to pay VAT. In most cases this will be charged by the selling company and it is then their duty to pay HMC , from what i can gather from friends in the Customs this is not happening on small sales such as this and there is little incentive for them to chase EU sellers as the EU will not offer any assistance in collection . So get a full quote from the Seller and they will tell you if they will send any orders to the UK and if they will get their carrier to charge you for VAT

 

[The Abbot]

At £120 this is below the threshold for Duty but as noted you will still have to pay VAT. In most cases this will be charged by the selling company and it is then their duty to pay HMC , from what i can gather from friends in the Customs this is not happening on small sales such as this and there is little incentive for them to chase EU sellers as the EU will not offer any assistance in collection . So get a full quote from the Seller and they will tell you if they will send any orders to the UK and if they will get their carrier to charge you for VAT

Thanks chaps for replies.

Bencat, I've read about this £135 threshol. But even still, I can't understand anything really. Ok emailed my seller Co, who replied thus (which, I can't understand either):

"Unfortunately all our orders that are being send to the UK are subject to import / VAT duties. In general this would be around 20% of the total order value.
To make sure you are not paying the VAT twice, we are shipping and billing all our orders to the UK without VAT."

Can you decipher what this means? Thanks Abbot

 

[bencat]

Thanks chaps for replies.

Bencat, I've read about this £135 threshol. But even still, I can't understand anything really. Ok emailed my seller Co, who replied thus (which, I can't understand either):

"Unfortunately all our orders that are being send to the UK are subject to import / VAT duties. In general this would be around 20% of the total order value.
To make sure you are not paying the VAT twice, we are shipping and billing all our orders to the UK without VAT."

Can you decipher what this means? Thanks Abbot

Yes I can to explain the £135 threshold is for Duty only and so if your total value of the order including shipping is less than this then no duty will be applied to the goods. VAT is applicable to all orders and can either be collected and processed by the seller or as in this case they sell their good without any application of the local VAT . They will then leave whichever carrier they use for the shipment to collect the UK VAT currently at 20% from the buyer before delivery and there will normally also be an administration / collection fee charged by the carrier . This varies from compnay to company with some charging nominal £5 others anything up to £40 on top of any VAT (at a value of £120 this would be £24) . So this should cost you £144 plus admin charge whatever that is . If you can find out which carrier they use then you can go to their website and they will state what admin charge they levy .

In practice with orders in my case for CD's under £10 no additional charges have ever been applied and they just get delivered as normal . This also applied to a smal item which cost £40 plus £5 shipping and this was just delivered by UPS with no additional fee or money for VAT requested. A general chat with others seemed to be that this could be a hit and miss as soe with orders of £35 were charged VAT (£6.80 plus £20 Admin fee DHL) and others like me had no additional fee applied. So no real hard and fast rule and very much a lottery . If you get no additional charge then say nothing and carry on , if you get charged then the same applies you have to pay up and look happy . It does seem that anything over £80 will attract VAT and admin fee which would apply in your case .

 

[The Abbot]

Yes I can to explain the £135 threshold is for Duty only and so if your total value of the order including shipping is less than this then no duty will be applied to the goods. VAT is applicable to all orders and can either be collected and processed by the seller or as in this case they sell their good without any application of the local VAT . They will then leave whichever carrier they use for the shipment to collect the UK VAT currently at 20% from the buyer before delivery and there will normally also be an administration / collection fee charged by the carrier . This varies from compnay to company with some charging nominal £5 others anything up to £40 on top of any VAT (at a value of £120 this would be £24) . So this should cost you £144 plus admin charge whatever that is . If you can find out which carrier they use then you can go to their website and they will state what admin charge they levy .

In practice with orders in my case for CD's under £10 no additional charges have ever been applied and they just get delivered as normal . This also applied to a smal item which cost £40 plus £5 shipping and this was just delivered by UPS with no additional fee or money for VAT requested. A general chat with others seemed to be that this could be a hit and miss as soe with orders of £35 were charged VAT (£6.80 plus £20 Admin fee DHL) and others like me had no additional fee applied. So no real hard and fast rule and very much a lottery . If you get no additional charge then say nothing and carry on , if you get charged then the same applies you have to pay up and look happy . It does seem that anything over £80 will attract VAT and admin fee which would apply in your case .

Thanks alot bencat. That's very useful to know in the future as well as this order. I'm gonna bookmark it for clear explanation of this tricky & uneven vat thing. So it seems a lottery of a kind then.

Much oblidged- Abbot

 

[The Abbot]

Chaps, just another angle on this complicated subject.. I wonder if someone would know;

I added €105 worth of materials from an amp/ guitar bits n bobs hugeplace called Tube-Town, de. With post cart total €124. So with the info in mind from this thread, aiming under the £135 figure. So room to spare.

I go to checkout, but prevented by a red notice "minimum order to UK €160, please add €54 worth if goods".

Eh??

I then email asking what is this etc etc. And the blunt reply thus "Hallo, th elimit is 160 Euro, we can not offer any other way of shipping. British Tax Law, not our fault, sorry.".

I'm completely at a loss as to what's going on. Can anyone help? [The €160 figure is suspiciously similar to £135, being £133.40 when I calculated it today.]

Thanks, Abbot.

 

[cynix]

I'm completely at a loss as to what's going on. Can anyone help? [The €160 figure is suspiciously similar to £135, being £133.40 when I calculated it today.]

Thanks, Abbot.

For online orders below £135 from outside the UK in theory the seller is meant to add UK VAT and pay it direct to UK taxman (eBay for example do this automatically now). For orders over £135 the seller just sends it as normal with value declared and no extra charges and the VAT is then collected from you "manually" as it always was by the delivery agent here in the UK who have paid it in advance to the UK taxman on your behalf.

Sounds like the company you're dealing with have no facility to pay the UK VAT on <£135 orders and so just avoid the issue by insisting on >£135 orders. This is understandable as if they're not selling much to the UK it would be a headache for them to register for and pay UK VAT etc.

 

[rab1991]

I've had two orders delivered this week, one from a eBay seller in Germany for £87 and one from a website from a seller in Holland for about £65. Both have been delivered without having to pay any vat etc.

In theory if less than £135 you shouldn't get charged any thing as the company you're buying from should pay the vat on for you.

 

[The Abbot]

For online orders below £135 from outside the UK in theory the seller is meant to add UK VAT and pay it direct to UK taxman (eBay for example do this automatically now). For orders over £135 the seller just sends it as normal with value declared and no extra charges and the VAT is then collected from you "manually" as it always was by the delivery agent here in the UK who have paid it in advance to the UK taxman on your behalf.

Sounds like the company you're dealing with have no facility to pay the UK VAT on <£135 orders and so just avoid the issue by insisting on >£135 orders. This is understandable as if they're not selling much to the UK it would be a headache for them to register for and pay UK VAT etc.

Hi cynix. Thanks for this, I'm sure & just feel confident this is the answer to my question, although gleaning only a fraction of understanding from it.

What I need now, is for someone to help me understand cynix's reply. You see any of this vat thing.. is lost on me. All my life ive 'just paid fuel' for example, with a vague notion that some portion of it is 'tax'. Do I need to know what? How it is determined? How much of a portion it even is? Not to drive the car, no I don't, I just put in £10 of fuel.

So the only thing I can establish fro cynix's reply, is that the €160 figure -does indeed- have some relation to the £135 figure. It is the same figure this Co is using, as some sort of "threshold line", as whoever else, somewhere else, is using. More than this though... I have no clue.

Thanks though, Abbot.

 

[The Abbot]

I've had two orders delivered this week, one from a eBay seller in Germany for £87 and one from a website from a seller in Holland for about £65. Both have been delivered without having to pay any vat etc.

In theory if less than £135 you shouldn't get charged any thing as the company you're buying from should pay the vat on for you.

So why then if Im trying to buy something from a seller in germany, as this Co is selling me so is a seller too (afaict) & it's only £17 more than your £87, which are both under this £135 "threshold figure/ line"..... why aren't you being told you must buy €160 before we can sell you it? Or conversely, why is my german seller telling me i have to spend €160 min..... but your german seller isn't telling you you have to pay €160 min?

 

[rab1991]

So why then if Im trying to buy something from a seller in germany, as this Co is selling me so is a seller too (afaict) & it's only £17 more than your £87, which are both under this £135 "threshold figure/ line"..... why aren't you being told you must buy €160 before we can sell you it? Or conversely, why is my german seller telling me i have to spend €160 min..... but your german seller isn't telling you you have to pay €160 min?

I think it's just the company you're trying to by from has a minimum order fee. And has nothing to do with import duty and vat.

Yes there might be something underlying about the company wanting an easier time as it flies close to the £135 limit so they don't have to do any extra work declaring the tax paid. But at the same time it could just be coincidence.

What are you trying to purchase? Are there any other places you can find what your looking for?

 

[The Abbot]

I think it's just the company you're trying to by from has a minimum order fee. And has nothing to do with import duty and vat.

Yes there might be something underlying about the company wanting an easier time as it flies close to the £135 limit so they don't have to do any extra work declaring the tax paid. But at the same time it could just be coincidence.

What are you trying to purchase? Are there any other places you can find what your looking for?

Hi Rab. Thanks this clarifies things a step more. I had thought vat was a UK thing. I had no idea it was applied in any other country. And what 'value' added tax actually means, seemingly the very vaguest word in english, I have no idea. Surely something's value doesn't stop because of a border. But I guess it's what this vague word actually means, here. And somewhere else. I don't know. And some things have it, & some don't too.

No unfortunately only 1 place has the two amp coverings I need anywhere.

-------

It dips into a broader thing here; basic finance stuff & schools. Instead of learning economics ( afaict the idea being to earn a buck ), basic finance xyz should be on the curriculum. I mean I don't understand how a credit card works, at aged 50; explained briefly a few times even in my bank.. but it makes no sense to me even still. Good in a way as I therefore don't (& cannot) choose to have one!

Thanks Abbot

 

[Lawrence001]

I think VAT was an EU imposed tax originally therefore it goes across the whole region. Leaving the EU gives us the ability to reduce it below the imposed minimum and taking it off certain products altogether (tampons being a much quoted example) although whether the UK govt chooses to do so is quite another matter!

 

[savvypaul]

In theory if less than £135 you shouldn't get charged any thing as the company you're buying from should pay the vat on for you.

From the UK, it is optional for the seller to take care of the administration of the VAT portion on the customer's behalf. There are significant costs involved in doing this for the seller and many small sellers choose not to do so; instead the VAT (plus any handling fee that may be charged by the carrier) is payable by the customer in their own country, usually prior to delivery of the item(s). I believe it is the same for EU sellers into the UK.

 

[rab1991]

From the UK, it is optional for the seller to take care of the administration of the VAT portion on the customer's behalf. There are significant costs involved in doing this for the seller and many small sellers choose not to do so; instead the VAT (plus any handling fee that may be charged by the carrier) is payable by the customer in their own country, usually prior to delivery of the item(s). I believe it is the same for EU sellers into the UK.

My issue is with the wording that's used on the gov.uk website, the seller will have, and not the seller could've paid it as it's optional.

 

[savvypaul]

My issue is with the wording that's used on the gov.uk website, the seller will have, and not the seller could've paid it as it's optional.

Then, by that, it looks like I'm wrong about the scheme being optional for EU sellers. So, their only way of opting out is to state a minimum order...which chimes with the OP's experience.

 

[Chumpchops]

When I bought my Buchardts a few months back, I paid the advertised shipped price, and then when I got a DHL invoice for the extra duty (£178 as I recall) Buchardt simply paid that amount back to my debit card.

Effectively cost neutral buying DK to UK, compared to inter-EU sales. A credit to Buchardt Audio.

However when I sent a gift to my sister in France, she was hammered with max duty and VAT levelling. I suppose I should not have expected any less entante cordiale.

 

[The Abbot]

Hi chaps thanks for your help trying to translate all this. It seems actually now more complicated than
i had originally thought!

Im totally lost I admit. All I can do is pay if a bill comes my way but just like credit cards, I have no inherrant understanding however hard I try of the process/ reasoning fundamentals behind it; even with help like here.

All I know is this €160/ £133 figure must be the £135 threshold figure. But why this figure even exists, why here/ at this ammount too ( & what on earth vat even is) I have no idea.

Appreciate offering to help but alas it's all over my head. Thanks Abbot