Innuos PhoenixNET - my review and thoughts.

simon g

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I've now had my Innuos PhoenixNet for a while. I thought others might be interested in my thoughts on what is a rather controversial product. Streaming is becoming increasingly popular so more people may have an interest in developing their system's streaming capability.

Some background first. I've been in to hifi for around 50 years now and I've had very many different systems and components. Many dozens of turntables, amps, speakers, CD players, DACs et al. System pricing (RRP) has ranged from c£50k when I ran a fairly serious AN system to a few hundred pounds. I do have very wide personal experience of an extremely wide and diverse range of products. At one time, I must have rivalled Jerry of this parish for the title of 'Box Swapper of the Year'!

I've been using network players and streamers for many years (around 10 or so). I've had loads of them; 3 varieties of Node, Lindemann, NAD, Naim, Bel Canto, dCs, Innuos, Auralic, et al).

I'd read quite a bit about the effect of network switches on SQ. Like many others, I found this all rather difficult to accept at first, leaning rather towards the 'bits are bits' type of belief. However, I thought I'd take a massive gamble (well, £25!) and bought a NOS Cisco 2940. I slotted this in to the system and there was definitely an obvious improvement over my previous arrangement.

Perhaps time to talk of what my arrangement was. Quite simple; around 15m thin, flexible ethernet cable off Amazon, direct from BT Home Hub to streamer (Auralic Aries G1).

It's also probably useful to outline what I call 'better'. I use a concept that I like to call 'intelligibility'. By that I mean, how intelligible is the overall musical performance. Am I able to clearly hear individual instruments without 'smearing' by other instruments? Can I hear small details, without those 'details' being merely exaggerated HF (many components exhibit this trait)? Can I hear the emotion in the vocals? The precision, pace and power of great percussion? A sound stage that places instruments and performers 'in the room'? A complete lack of 'boxiness, with speakers disappearing? I have no interest in measurements, other than for basic compatibility. This review is clearly my subjective opinion, but it is an opinion based upon decades of experience of listening, enjoying and being engaged by music, both recorded and live. 

Back to ethernet switches. The Cisco was clearly an improvement, so I thought I'd try and English Electric 8switch. Again, an improvement, to a larger degree than the Cisco. I then started looking at the Innuos PhoenoxNet. Once I go up off the floor from seeing the price, I became interested.

Another side step here. My system is already at quite a serious level, but I have been contemplating further improvements (as most of us here do!). I've had my current speakers for around 3-4 years and they are incredible 'speakers. I've yet to hear other speakers that can match them for mid and HF performance. Nevertheless, I did look at possible replacements with a view to increasing the scale of sound. Unusually, I did try other 'speakers in my room. It was a universal fail from all of them. I then looked at a possible amp upgrade. I already have a very good amplifier, but did try an amp further up the range. Yes, there was an improvement, but not £4-5Ks worth, IMO. Front end then? My DAC is excellent and my streamer is probably as good as I'll ever need. So, in the context of any possible upgrade to my system, the PhoenixNet didn't look silly, price wise. So I bought one.

First things first. This is not like any ethernet switch you've seen before. it is certainly a hifi component. The casing is quite large and deep (think Cyrus like) and reasonably heavy at 5kg. the weight comes from the case and the excellent linear power supply contained therein (I won't bore everyone with the technical details of the Phoenix; that's widely available on the 'net). You certainly can't 'tuck this away' anywhere. It certainly is a high quality bit of kit; very well made and put together.

So, hook it up, turn on, wait for 15 mins or so and cue the music.

A further aside on how the music arrives! I use Roon (by far the best music streaming interface, but that's for another discussion). I have a Roon Nucleus, that stores my FLAC files internally on an SSD). The Auralic app is also good, but can't compete with Roon. There is no difference in sound quality between using Roon and the Auralic native app. Mine is a very revealing system; if there were a difference I would hear it (incidentally, I have recently had a full hearing test and my hearing is above average for my age). There are those on here who seem to experience a drop in SQ when using Roon. I think that may well be to do with how their systems are set up, how they run Roon and the hardware they use. For what it's worth, my experience has proven to me that the optimum way to run Roon is: have Roon ROCK running CORE alone on a dedicated device (not on a PC, Mac, Innuos streamer, etc); do not directly connect that device to your streamer; use a high quality Roon Ready endpoint via ethernet.

Back to the Phoenix. Frankly, the improvement is not slight and subtle (like some cable differences). This is profoundly better. Astonishingly so. All the criteria for 'intelligibility' move up several notches. Using the PhoenixNet is like a serious component upgrade. I kid you not. My system is now performing astonishingly well. 

The biggest improvement is to streamed services, but network playing also shows gains. I use Tidal and Qobuz with Roon, along with my ripped FLACS. HiRes Qobuz material now easily exceeds CD playback. One of the advantages of Roon, is that all the various versions of an album are available on one page, allowing an easy comparison. I just choose what sounds best to me and put that in my library; or even multiple copies of same album in different versions.

So, would I unreservedly recommend the PhoenixNet. No, I wouldn't. It's going to be system dependent, both on quality and context. I know it sounds elitist, but your system does need to be capable of high resolution to fully appreciate this product. Many people think their systems are in this category, but they just aren't. I would strongly encourage people to listen to as wide a range of systems as possible, just to appreciate what can be achieved.

If your system is already sorted, it is high quality (which doesn't necessarily mean high price) and you want to optimise your streaming capabilities then you should definitely investigate the Phoenix.

For those that are interested, my system, including cabling and assorted 'foo' is as follows:

Roon Nucleus connected directly to BT Home Hub via Audioquest Carbon ethernet cable (sits in the hall, well away from hifi)

Cheap, ethernet cable to Innuos Phoenix.

Audioquest Vodka to Auralic Aries G1

Audioquest Carbon AES to Esoteric D07x DAC.

Audioquest Yukon XLR to Accuphase E270

Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval to Raidho X1s, with dedicated stands on custom granite plinths

Techniccs SLG 700 via RFC Pluto II to Accuphase E270, plus SPDIF coaxial out to Esoteric D07X via Van Den Hul Triaxial digital interconnect.

Technics sits on a Townshend isolation platform. DAC and Aries G1 sit on Sobothane hemi-spheres.

I hope the above is of interest to some. I realise that many will feel that I'm deluded and hearing stuff which isn't there. Well, I'm not going to change their minds and certainly don't want to try. I won't engage in that type of discussion at all. Their loss, is my overall feeling on that. I'm happy to field questions and feedback from those that don't sit in that camp.

As a final word; anyone want to buy my immaculate 8switch?!

 

Fourlegs

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Simon, Thanks for a great review. I went on a similar journey to you except that I went via the Cisco then the EtherRegen instead of the English Electric. With all of these my baseline to judge the changes was how the system sounded when the ethernet cable was pulled from the back of the streamer.

With any of the others they moved towards this baseline best sound quality but the PhoenixNET was the only one that sounded as good.

The PhoenixNET is not cheap by any standards but I agree with you that it gives a significant gain to an otherwise well sorted system.

 
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pirov

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Indeed great review, which led to my home-demoing the PhoenixNet along with the EE8.

I have until tomorrow to make a decision, but I don't think there's much doubt in my mind that the Innuos is worth the expense in my system.

I know that @Fourlegs is following another thread where I've reported my findings. Any thoughts @simon g six months on from your review (I don't think you're following the other thread)?

Also a question to both: what sort of mains cable is the PhoenixNet supplied with, does it claim to be anything special? (The one I have on home-dem was missing the mains lead).
 
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simon g

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Indeed great review, which led to my home-demoing the PhoenixNet along with the EE8.

I have until tomorrow to make a decision, but I don't think there's much doubt in my mind that the Innuos is worth the expense in my system.

I know that @Fourlegs is following another thread where I've reported my findings. Any thoughts @simon g six months on from your review (I don't think you're following the other thread)?

Also a question to both: what sort of mains cable is the PhoenixNet supplied with, does it claim to be anything special? (The one I have on home-dem was missing the mains lead).

Thank you.

The power lead is nothing special, but it is decent quality and is what I use.

An anecdote may well be relevant to your decision, perhaps. Fairly recently, I changed my system to a physically much smaller and lighter one (albeit higher quality), as well as attempting to remove boxes. As part of that I sold my original PhoenixNet and reverted to an EE8. Well, that was a mistake. I really missed the 'Net; it just brings that extra something that makes the difference between a very good sounding system and a superb sounding system. So, I bought another one; brand new. It's worth it to me, but we all have our own value judgments to make.

I've also very recently changed speakers from my Raidhos to Zingali Neo Zero Sei. They do need some further running in, but I thought I'd try a small experiment (as you do!) and remove the 'Net and revert to a Zyxel switch. Er, no thank you. the Zingali's easily show the difference (improvement). With the 'Net in place, streaming high res from Qobuz is significantly 'better' than CD playback from my more than decent CD player (Luxman DN150) [just done another comparison using 'Side Eye' by Pat Metheny].

Hope that helps?
 

simon g

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Just some additional experience/thoughts to add.

Having had my previous 'speakers for 5-6 years, I decided on a change, more for its own sake than a desperate need for higher SQ. The Zingalis have worked out very well indeed, but I did change my entire system to suit them, with the added bonus of a significant step up in SQ.

This means that the Lindemann is no longer in my main system plus I now use what I would consider to be a 'reference' level amplifier. My source is the T+A MP2500R, which is a very capable disc player/streamer. I've still got the Innuos PhoenixNet, so I decided to try that with the T+A and without. It does still have a positive impact, but not so great as with the Lindemann. I think this may be to do with the high quality/well implemented T+A streaming board. I'm now experimenting with wireless vs wired. I'll update once I've come to a conclusion on that.

On the related matter of ethernet cables. Previously I was using Audioquest Carbon and Vodka ethernet cables, which were the 'best' to my ears of quite a few that I tried. However, I did come across some recommendations to give the ADC KRONE TrueNet UTP Cat 6 cables a go. Well, much to my surprise, they definitely improve, albeit marginally, on the AQ cables. The shocker is that they are £7 or so for a 2m cable! Worth others giving them a try as, at that price, it's a cheap tweak that may well work well in your system and save some dosh. For those interested, I now 'cascade' switches (not from any expectation of improved SQ; I merely use the Zyxel as an extension lead, as it were). So, the system is cheap, thin Cat 6 (around 13m) from router to Zyxel, ADC Krone (replacing AQ Carbon) to PhoenixNet and ADC Krone (replacing AQ Vodka) to MP2500R. The cable that has most impact is that from PhoenixNet to MP2500R, although the Zyxel to Phoenix Net did show some, if negligible, improvements (this is at the 'am I imagining this?' level).

Make of that what you will. Just my personal observations and experience.
 

pirov

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My source is the T+A MP2500R, which is a very capable disc player/streamer. I've still got the Innuos PhoenixNet, so I decided to try that with the T+A and without. It does still have a positive impact, but not so great as with the Lindemann. I think this may be to do with the high quality/well implemented T+A streaming board. I'm now experimenting with wireless vs wired. I'll update once I've come to a conclusion on that.

On the related matter of ethernet cables. Previously I was using Audioquest Carbon and Vodka ethernet cables, which were the 'best' to my ears of quite a few that I tried. However, I did come across some recommendations to give the ADC KRONE TrueNet UTP Cat 6 cables a go. Well, much to my surprise, they definitely improve, albeit marginally, on the AQ cables.
On the first point, I've only tried different network switches with the Linn Klimax (Next Gen) DSM Hub. All I can say is that the PhoenixNET has made a very nice improvement to SQ in my system – with what is generally acknowledged to be a fine streamer, with excellent isolation from RF and other noise.

My experience with ethernet cables is similar to yours, having replaced AQ Cinnamon with cheaper cables (BJ Cat 6a) which to my ears sound better.

Please do report on results of your experimenting with wireless vs wired!
 

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Which of the “audiophile” ethernet cables mentioned by @simon g and @pirov have metal RJ45 plugs and which have plastic, please?

EDIT: looks like the AQ Cinnamon and Vodka have metal plugs.
And the ADC Krone have plastic.
Please correct me if either is incorrect.
 
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simon g

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Which of the “audiophile” ethernet cables mentioned by @simon g and @pirov have metal RJ45 plugs and which have plastic, please?

EDIT: looks like the AQ Cinnamon and Vodka have metal plugs.
And the ADC Krone have plastic.
Please correct me if either is incorrect.

I used the AQ Carbon, which is terminated to.choice. I went with the Telegartner, as do most. This is metal. The Vodka uses same Telegartner.
 

TheFlash

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I used the AQ Carbon, which is terminated to.choice. I went with the Telegartner, as do most. This is metal. The Vodka uses same Telegartner.
Metal plugs negate the galvanic isolation inherent in ethernet boards. They allow noise to cross the threshold. This can be initially impressive but it’s noise. Chord provide a short “network cable” like this with their EE switch; it’s a trick as it helps to make the box sound different which can easily be confused with better.
CATn cables usually have plastic plugs. If you’re trying to eliminate noise (the point of the switch in the first place), a CATn cable will do this more effectively than a boutique cable. And far more cheaply.

I suspect what @pirov and @simon g report here is that, having got used to the sound with boutique cables, a stock CATn cable actually delivers the goods more effectively. 😊
 
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pirov

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Which of the “audiophile” ethernet cables mentioned by @simon g and @pirov have metal RJ45 plugs and which have plastic, please?

EDIT: looks like the AQ Cinnamon and Vodka have metal plugs.
And the ADC Krone have plastic.
Please correct me if either is incorrect.
Correct, AQ Cinnamon is metal (gold colour)
 

simon g

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Metal plugs negate the galvanic isolation inherent in ethernet boards. They allow noise to cross the threshold. This can be initially impressive but it’s noise. Chord provide a short “network cable” like this with their EE switch; it’s a trick as it helps to make the box sound different which can easily be confused with better.
CATn cables usually have plastic plugs. If you’re trying to eliminate noise (the point of the switch in the first place), a CATn cable will do this more effectively than a boutique cable. And far more cheaply.

I suspect what @pirov and @simon g report here is that, having got used to the sound with boutique cables, a stock CATn cable actually delivers the goods more effectively. 😊

Hmmm...I'm not convinced that 'noise' (or lack of) is the sole contributor to be considered; many other possibilities/variables to consider. Frankly, it's a waste of mental energy preparing hypotheses, testing those, etc. I just listen and if it sounds better to me, then it is better. I'm the only one listening and I'm not a signed up member of nerd central ASR :)
 

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Hmmm...I'm not convinced that 'noise' (or lack of) is the sole contributor to be considered; many other possibilities/variables to consider. Frankly, it's a waste of mental energy preparing hypotheses, testing those, etc. I just listen and if it sounds better to me, then it is better. I'm the only one listening and I'm not a signed up member of nerd central ASR :)
You really should be! There is nothing happening in the digital domain of a “normal” (stock or audiophile) switch which impacts the sound, though the PhoenixNET might do something clever with USB or whatever.
 
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Fourlegs

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You really should be! There is nothing happening in the digital domain of a “normal” (stock or audiophile) switch which impacts the sound, though the PhoenixNET might do something clever with USB or whatever.
The PhoenixNET is an Ethernet switch with no usb connections or function. The PhoenixUSB does indeed do something clever with USB according to its manufacturer but that is another subject for another day.

Looking at what Innuos themselves say about the PhoenixNET they certainly concentrate on noise reduction in their section headed Minimise Network Switch Noise with five mechanisms for reducing noise listed whereas each of the other sections is a much more brief affair. This give credence to your suggestion about what is happening and which is the major area to concentrate on when using switches which can be heard to improve sound quality. Their section 03 regarding power might be significant as well of course!

8A972145-285B-4C92-8503-D3B89400F846.jpeg
 
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TheFlash

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The PhoenixNET is an Ethernet switch with no usb connections or function. The PhoenixUSB does indeed do something clever with USB according to its manufacturer but that is another subject for another day.

Looking at what Innuos themselves say about the PhoenixNET they certainly concentrate on noise reduction in their section headed Minimise Network Switch Noise with five mechanisms for reducing noise listed whereas each of the other sections is a much more brief affair. This give credence to your suggestion about what is happening and which is the major area to concentrate on when using switches which can be heard to improve sound quality. Their section 03 regarding power might be significant as well of course!

8A972145-285B-4C92-8503-D3B89400F846.jpeg
Never seen that before, very interesting. We can argue offline about the relevance of the clock in an ethernet switch (dCS would strongly disagree) but the rest seems to be a fine recipe for a fine switch. 😊
 
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You really should be! There is nothing happening in the digital domain of a “normal” (stock or audiophile) switch which impacts the sound, though the PhoenixNET might do something clever with USB or whatever.
Good switches clean up a network’s physical layer. The order of the bits remains the same (1 or 0, on or off, switched or unswitched, high or low or however you like to describe bit ‘states’) the ‘structure‘ of the bits changes (Timing, noise, voltage wave form)
 
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