Linn Owners

KANDID VS KRYSTAL

llatpoh

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Micro Line is basically Audio Technica's take on a Micro Ridge, nobody holds a patent over the Micro Ridge name and for that reason Micro Ridge styluses from different manufacturers are not necessarily identical. Both profiles are very close in reality, the terms have been used interchangeably by the industry for decades, and both are also Van Den Hul derivatives.

AJ Van Den Hul was a physicist at Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands, who in the early 80s started it all by using CAD in an effort to build a stylus profile as close as possible to the shape of the cutting head, hoping to further reduce distortion. Both of these profiles are indeed of the "line contact" type, but quite different to the "fine line" ones, which are Shibata derivatives instead.
 
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Corry

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I haven't seen much about the Kendo, and I'm curious about it. When it finally comes time to replace my Kandid, I see three options: the safe path (stick with the Kandid), the "sensible" path (switch to Kendo), or the "life's too short" path (upgrade to Ekstatik).

The Akiva sticks in my memory as the first Linn cartridge that I was entirely satisfied with. Given that the Kandid was an upgrade over that, I often wonder how the Kendo would stack up against the Akiva. I can't imagine many have made the comparison (though I've read some opinions that put the Krystal in the same ballpark as the Akiva).
 

saxo

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Linn kandid like Lyra Etna has an Ogura fine line contact nude diamond tip (3µmx 70µm) which is equivalent to the Micro-ridge. At this top level the internal motor of the cartridge + the body differentiates the personality and performance of each.
 

ThomasOK

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HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
Micro Line is basically Audio Technica's take on a Micro Ridge, nobody holds a patent over the Micro Ridge name and for that reason Micro Ridge styluses from different manufacturers are not necessarily identical. Both profiles are very close in reality, the terms have been used interchangeably by the industry for decades, and both are also Van Den Hul derivatives.

AJ Van Den Hul was a physicist at Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands, who in the early 80s started it all by using CAD in an effort to build a stylus profile as close as possible to the shape of the cutting head, hoping to further reduce distortion. Both of these profiles are indeed of the "line contact" type, but quite different to the "fine line" ones, which are Shibata derivatives instead.
MicroLinear does appear to be the same profile as a Micro Ridge, a stylus shape that is unique in that the contact patch doesn't widen as it wears - until you get to the main body where it suddenly widens a lot and sounds bad. One good thing about Micro Ridge is that it leaves no doubt of when it is worn out as the change is sudden and significant as opposed to gradual and more subtle.

However, Van Den Hul is clearly not the one who started it all. The trend to long and narrow styli was started in the 70s when JVC patented the Shibata stylus in 1973. It needed the shallow profile to read up to the 45kHz necessary to pick up the rear channel information on CD4 4 channel "discrete" records. Also a Line Contact stylus profile was patented in 1978 by Junshiro Ogura. Interestingly Ogura Jewel Company is a supplier of diamond/cantilever/coil assemblies to makers of moving coil companies. Among the companies who use Ogura assemblies are Lyra, Linn (on the Kandid and predecessors), Koetsu and Dynavector.
 
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llatpoh

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MicroLinear does appear to be the same profile as a Micro Ridge, a stylus shape that is unique in that the contact patch doesn't widen as it wears - until you get to the main body where it suddenly widens a lot and sounds bad. One good thing about Micro Ridge is that it leaves no doubt of when it is worn out as the change is sudden and significant as opposed to gradual and more subtle.

However, Van Den Hul is clearly not the one who started it all. The trend to long and narrow styli was started in the 70s when JVC patented the Shibata stylus in 1973. It needed the shallow profile to read up to the 45kHz necessary to pick up the rear channel information on CD4 4 channel "discrete" records. Also a Line Contact stylus profile was patented in 1978 by Junshiro Ogura. Interestingly Ogura Jewel Company is a supplier of diamond/cantilever/coil assemblies to makers of moving coil companies. Among the companies who use Ogura assemblies are Lyra, Linn (on the Kandid and predecessors), Koetsu and Dynavector.
Yes, Shibata came before, but Van Den Hul was a considerable departure from hyper ellipticals, significant enough to earn a whole separate classification of it's own, one that the industry has recognized for several decades as Micro Ridge.
 

saxo

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I remember in the 1970's (except for the more professional Compatible Discrete-4) the most accessible quadraphony or tetraphony was practiced with the best possible diamand size, like Shibata capable of going up to 50kz + a demoluder and a 4 channel amplifier. With stereo around 1962 it was already good, without forgetting the time of monophony where simpler recordings were already giving great satisfaction on 33t vinyl in 25cm.
 

Rille

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I haven't seen much about the Kendo, and I'm curious about it. When it finally comes time to replace my Kandid, I see three options: the safe path (stick with the Kandid), the "sensible" path (switch to Kendo), or the "life's too short" path (upgrade to Ekstatik).

The Akiva sticks in my memory as the first Linn cartridge that I was entirely satisfied with. Given that the Kandid was an upgrade over that, I often wonder how the Kendo would stack up against the Akiva. I can't imagine many have made the comparison (though I've read some opinions that put the Krystal in the same ballpark as the Akiva).
What prevents you from having a new experience?

The Kendo will probably have different strengths from the Kandid, but also weaknesses.

The Ekstatik might make you more satisfied than an Akiva ever did. Are you afraid it has addictive potential?

The Krystal I only heard once briefly. For me it didn't really have that naturalness in musical presentation that I always appreciated by the Akiva.
 

Ron.P

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All of the current Lyra's, and in this case the Lyra sourced Kandid, require an 'extremely precise' set up. The new angle technology that they use is very critical of a number of set up parameters, get them right and you are rewarded with excellent SQ. Get them just slightly wrong and the whole presentation goes out the window, unfortunately! The Lyra's ( and vis a vis the kandid) are not a cartridge that is designed for the do-it-yourselfer who is just learning set-up. The Krystal OTOH is far more forgiving and therefore probably more folks have heard that sing than the Lyra's...which are very often naysayed-- as the listener has heard one that is incorrectly set-up and subsequently hears the results.
I was amazed at how the sound quality was affected by level. My new level tool, a stainless steel ball bearing on the bare platter,showed a very slight tilt sideways. The improvement was the Klimax to the effort.
 

Corry

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What prevents you from having a new experience?

The Kendo will probably have different strengths from the Kandid, but also weaknesses.

The Ekstatik might make you more satisfied than an Akiva ever did. Are you afraid it has addictive potential?

The Krystal I only heard once briefly. For me it didn't really have that naturalness in musical presentation that I always appreciated by the Akiva.
The only reason I'm even musing on this is running costs. If cost wasn't an issue, I would try to audition Kandid v Ekstatik. In that scenario, if I even slightly preferred the Ekstatik, I would go for it, otherwise I would stick with my Kandid.
 
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Ron.P

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The only reason I'm even musing on this is running costs. If cost wasn't an issue, I would try to audition Kandid v Ekstatik. In that scenario, if I even slightly preferred the Ekstatik, I would go for it, otherwise I would stick with my Kandid.
A friend did upgrade from the Kandid to the Ekstatik. His assessment is that the improvements are very minor. fwiw.
 
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Ron.P

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For me it‘s hard to believe.

The characters of Kandid and Ekstatik are very different. Kandid more on the analytical side.
I would tend to agree with you without actually hearing the two. After all, we don't know what difference he was expecting. That expectation could easily affect his reality.
 
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llatpoh

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I would tend to agree with you without actually hearing the two. After all, we don't know what difference he was expecting. That expectation could easily affect his reality.
Both cartridges are heavily into diminishing returns territory, differences could be quite meaningful to some but I would be rather surprised if actually big.
 
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Rille

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A friend did upgrade from the Kandid to the Ekstatik. His assessment is that the improvements are very minor. fwiw.
I will try a short characterisation of both as I experience them.

For me, the Kandid has its strengths in its very good resolution and its always irresistible power. That's why it knows how to impress and will certainly find its followers.

The Ekstatik is also a cartridge that resolves excellently. All musical voices are brought out and STAY in the musical context. The sampling in the high frequency range is extremely good and does not stress. The details reproduced are always meaningful.
 

saxo

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In another place, I listened to a Project Signature 12 first with an Ortofon Winfeld TI cartridge and second with an Ortofon Anna Diamond. With Winfeld TI everything was excellent without having to change the cartridge. With Anna Diamond the music became even more natural, fluid and embodied; and no more desire to go back to Winfeld.
Although the personalities are different between the Linn and Ortofon cartridges; I suppose ? the difference between Kandid and Ekstatik can also be felt as being even more natural and true with Ekstatik.
 

ThomasOK

LP12 Whisperer, Lejonklou importer
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Thomas O'Keefe
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
The only reason I'm even musing on this is running costs. If cost wasn't an issue, I would try to audition Kandid v Ekstatik. In that scenario, if I even slightly preferred the Ekstatik, I would go for it, otherwise I would stick with my Kandid.
That would be a dangerous comparison. Unlike the one comment above I don't know anyone who felt the difference was minor from a musical point of view including a number of customers I have installed it for, the owner of the store and myself. I suppose if you were talking in purely analytical terms: frequency response, bass extension, etc. it might not seem that far apart. But in terms of musical insight and enjoyment I find the Ekstatik a significant step up.

Similar to saxo's comment on the Ortofon comparison, there is no desire to go back to a Kandid after having heard music retrieved by the Ekstatik.
 

saxo

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Indeed, the efficiency of the cartridges depends on the performance level of the deck. Ekstatik with the full LP12 SE and Lingo 4 is likely to be less interesting than LP12 SE Radikal 2 with Kandid. With Lingo 4, the differences between Ekstatik and Kandid will probably be less noticeable. With K-Radikal SE the revelation of Ekstatik becomes more obvious compared to Kandid.
 

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