Michell - Best of both worlds

[macman000]

Good evening all

This is going to be my first build thread.

I have had the pleasure of owning a very early (late 80's) Gyrodec for the last year or so. I have recently acquired a more modern Gryodec (although requires a little tlc) along with a few other accessories bought recently. So let's get started with a list of what we have to play with:

Early 80's Gyrodec (existing deck) c/w
Origin Live DC motor and control box
AT 440mlb cart
Solidair Pylons
Jelco 750db arm inc VTA adjuster

Newer Gyro SE (age unknown) c/w
Michell arm (unsure as to which one?) Rega looking
Original Michell DC motor

Audiomod Series 6 arm (courtesy of Rockchild)
Hana SL cart (courtesy of Rockchild)

Puresound P10 (mm) phonostage
Luxman E250 (mm/mc) phonostage

So, basically what we have are 2 decks, 3 arms, 2 dc motors, 1x mm cart and 1x mc cart, 2 phonostages 'in a nut shell'.

My aim is to strip both of them down and rebuild a good one (to keep) out of the two and a not so good one (to sell on). I shall have lots of questions to ask while stripping and rebuilding as they seem quite different decks when examined closely.

The things to consider/want are:
1. I would like to keep the acrylic base and cover (due to having an open fireplace in the room/dust)
2. Maybe having 2 arms on the deck (undecided as yet)
3. Using the more modern black platter instead of the silver aluminium platter including the bearing etc

I think that's about it

Open to views and opinions

 

[macman000]

Can anybody put a name to the arm on the Gyro SE (2nd to last photo)? I have also noticed that the lifter doesn't seem to lift anymore/stiff. Can this be stripped down and rebuilt or do I have to buy a new lifter?

 

[Jules_S]

Looks like an RB300 or a variant of

 

[Rockchild]

As we have been talking Mark, you know my view…

Put the newer Gyro in the plinth with its bearing and platter, mount the AM and Hana, replace the springs with the new Michell ones and job done. It will out perform the OL/Gyro by a considerable margin.
Sell the OL Gyro as deck only for around £900, the Jelco £300-£400 and the Rega arm is a std 300 so around £150-£200. Keep the AT cartridge as a backup and then money made, buy the HR PSU. Job done 👍🏻

 

[Rockchild]

Oh and I’m glad you like the Luxman 😉

 

[macman000]

Oh and I’m glad you like the Luxman 😉

Like it, more like 'love' it, lol. The puresound will be on the move

 

[macman000]

As we have been talking Mark, you know my view…

Put the newer Gyro in the plinth with its bearing and platter, mount the AM and Hana, replace the springs with the new Michell ones and job done. It will out perform the OL/Gyro by a considerable margin.
Sell the OL Gyro as deck only for around £900, the Jelco £300-£400 and the Rega arm is a std 300 so around £150-£200. Keep the AT cartridge as a backup and then money made, buy the HR PSU. Job done 👍🏻

Hi Jon

Thanks for your views. A few questions for you.

What's so good about the new springs from Michell? One of the bug bears I didn't like about the old springs were how springy they were.
What's no so good about the Origin Live dc motor compared to the 90's Michell dc motor?
And what's your thoughts regarding having 2 tonearms on the deck. The reason I am pondering this idea is that I listen to a lot of music. Some passive as I listen while I work (maybe use the Jelco/440mlb) and then use the AM/Hana when I'm really listening. (not at work)

 

[Rockchild]

So many people misunderstand the principles of the Gyro springs. It is supposed to bounce and a perfect one at that. It must bounce in a symmetrical way, i.E adjust the height of each one and then hold the adjuster and twist the springs so it bounces perfectly with no lateral movement. It’s a bit like a Linn in that respect. The new coated springs are designed to minimise any vibration or sonic transmission and that is the Michell principle. If you change them for a third party effort, you are changing the sonic character of the deck.

The Michell DC motor is quieter and has more torque for increased stability over the OL. I have an OL converted Walker deck and it’s great but the platter is lighter so it’s easy to balance and adjust the speed.
The later Michell platter is a precision instrument and has been designed specifically with the DC motor.
Whilst I’m a fan of upgrading decks, the Michell however was designed and optimised at great cost and research and it’s truly a great design.

Two arms? No issues with that but I favour a free standing arm plinth rather than modifying the motor housing ring. Modify the motor housing ring will change the spyder frame sound characteristics with the extra weight and put additional pressure on the springs.

 

[macman000]

So many people misunderstand the principles of the Gyro springs. It is supposed to bounce and a perfect one at that. It must bounce in a symmetrical way, i.E adjust the height of each one and then hold the adjuster and twist the springs so it bounces perfectly with no lateral movement. It’s a bit like a Linn in that respect. The new coated springs are designed to minimise any vibration or sonic transmission and that is the Michell principle. If you change them for a third party effort, you are changing the sonic character of the deck.

The Michell DC motor is quieter and has more torque for increased stability over the OL. I have an OL converted Walker deck and it’s great but the platter is lighter so it’s easy to balance and adjust the speed.
The later Michell platter is a precision instrument and has been designed specifically with the DC motor.
Whilst I’m a fan of upgrading decks, the Michell however was designed and optimised at great cost and research and it’s truly a great design.

Two arms? No issues with that but I favour a free standing arm plinth rather than modifying the motor housing ring. Modify the motor housing ring will change the spyder frame sound characteristics with the extra weight and put additional pressure on the springs.

Thanks for your response, a good insight into the Michell ethos. I see what you are saying in regards to the second arm although the original deck does have holes drill and tapped ready for a second arm and have been told on here that you have to remove the weights that sit under that part of the chassis. But I see your point regarding changing the sound characteristics

 

[Rockchild]

Thanks for your response, a good insight into the Michell ethos. I see what you are saying in regards to the second arm although the original deck does have holes drill and tapped ready for a second arm and have been told on here that you have to remove the weights that sit under that part of the chassis. But I see your point regarding changing the sound characteristics

It’s just my view Mark. Your Luxman has two inputs so can take two arms or turntables and unless the deck was originally designed to take two arms, I’d rather have two tables. You have that opportunity with what you have but I still think you should sell what I said and just get the HR and perhaps a Rega deck for that background music you wanted when not seriously listening so to speak.
Getting the Gyro to best spec as possible will give you imo, the greatest pleasure from Vinyl within your budget.

 

[martinpix]

To put the newer gyro in the old plinth you'd have to send the case to Michell for drilling out , as it's an old gyrodec . Personally I would sell of the old full cased one as it is and buy a Michell lift of cover ,not cheap but deffo your best option, I wouldn't swap any parts other than maybe take the arm of the new gyro the Michell one and replace it with your best arm the audiomods one . Keep the luxman phono stage and the Hans cartridge and move the rest on. to help fund the new cover , or buy a new complete plinth and cover direct from Michell around £500 though.
The lift on lift of covers are far better if you have the room to store it when of the turntable.
you can buy a none Michell one on eBay search turntable cover and you can buy one made to measure for £119 inc postage .

 

[macman000]

To put the newer gyro in the old plinth you'd have to send the case to Michell for drilling out , as it's an old gyrodec . Personally I would sell of the old full cased one as it is and buy a Michell lift of cover ,not cheap but deffo your best option, I wouldn't swap any parts other than maybe take the arm of the new gyro the Michell one and replace it with your best arm the audiomods one . Keep the luxman phono stage and the Hans cartridge and move the rest on. to help fund the new cover , or buy a new complete plinth and cover direct from Michell around £500 though.
The lift on lift of covers are far better if you have the room to store it when of the turntable.
you can buy a none Michell one on eBay search turntable cover and you can buy one made to measure for £119 inc postage .

Thank you for your thoughts on this

 

[huwge]

Only just seen this
I would definitely keep the full plinth set up if you have an open fire
I went Orbe SE to full Orbe for exactly this reason
Difference in sound quality negligible to my ears, no soot on records easily outweighs marginal gains I reckon
Only ever had NC motor for tt
When I had full Trichord kit (Orca, Alectos etc) the NC variant power supplies seemed to make a difference (confirmation bias?) but now I've seen the light and use Valves and a StepUp it is possibly irrelevant

 

[gwernaffield]

would this thread not be better in the michell owners ? just a thought