Michell Orbe clamp upgrade kit for Gyro SE - opinions please

[BB Wan]

I've been considering doing this upgrade for a while, but wondered if anyone on here had any experience of doing it and any improvements it may bring?

I think i have done almost as much as i can to maximise the potential of my Gyro SE (100% level dedicated wall shelf, HR PSU, Armplate decoupling kit, new springs, new belt, new bearing oil, oh and hours if not days of getting the 'bounce' right). I do currently use the standard Michell record clamp, but seem to remember having heard at some point that the screw-down Orbe clamp is even better. I have no desire to go to the Orbe platter upgrade as i refuse to lose the spinning weights (I love watching them rotate...sad i know, but there you go), so i think this is really my last option to improve it.

Thanks

BB

 

[vacdac]

I'm with you re not wanting to change from the Gyro SE's standard platter. Many seem to think the Orbe Platter upgrade + densodamp rob the Gyro of a certain something. Although I have stuck with the stock platter I had always wanted to explore adding mass & bought an Oyaide MJ-12 recurved alloy platter mat. This has been a great success, bring tangible improvements to the SQ, which were far greater than my modest expectations as to any changes in presentation.

I'm actually at a similar point to yourself in that I've gone where I've wanted with the arm, have a good selection of LOMC carts all set up in h/shells & good ter go. I have dedicated wall support, armboard decoupling kit, sexxy tonearm cable + nice phono stage etc. The HR power supply would seem the logical next step for me.

I use a standard clamp which I've tweaked/modded to deal with the effectively shortened spindle, this works extremely well, but I only tend to use it for more warped LP's as I also have a weight type one that is great with nice flat LP's. I've tried the Orbe screw down job a few times & personally find it a little fiddly. I prefer my solution in all honesty & the clamping action, together with the the recurved profile of the Oyaide is very impressive. Far far better than any amount of tweaking/experimenting with the standard platter + clamp.

I posted all details in a recent thread.>>>

Re the mat/mating to the platter experimentation. I've been using an Oyaide MJ-12 recurved alloy platter mat for the best part of a year now. I use this on the Gyro>>

.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vinyl-LP-R...d=529222071883.For clamps/weights I use my tweaked/mildly modded Michell clamp which is extremely effective or the above Weight type one which is also very good, yet not heavy enough to upset the suspension of the Gyro. The combined weight of platter + MJ-12 + clamp is just over half a kilo less than the Orbe platter.

I've been really surprised at the improvement in SQ over the Gyro's bare platter.Using the Oyaide the noise floor is lower & leading edges + decay of notes seems clearly improved.

Yeah the weight I linked to is very straightforward in use with no clamping action to apply/disengage. At around 280/290g's it seems around about the right weight to couple fairly effectively with the Oyaide MJ-12. I certainly prefer the SQ using the weight rather than not & despite not being a great fan of using clamps/weights in the past I find this & the Michell clamp v easy to use. I find it no real impediment TBH, or that it adds any time to the process. The fact that it doubles as a spindle mounted bubble level + has strobe marking for speed calibration is a real bonus IMV. The tweaked Michell clamp I now reserve for dealing with any slightly warped discs as it is extremely effective at doing this, further aided by the recurved profile of the MJ-12* (*I understand that the much talked about Tennuto that Guy at Pure Sound offers has a similar profile)The tweak I've mentioned to the Michell clamp is really simple & just summat I thought to try the day the MJ-12 arrived. Due to the effectively shortened amount of exposed spindle the Michell clamp was not engaging well enough to the spindle & would gradually slip itself off within around 5/6mins. There is a Rega variant to deal with shorter spindles, but my solution has some advantages.

All I've done is introduce a small 'O' Ring at the point of the clamps underside where the locking 'pawl' element threads through. As this pulls the splines slightly inwards it introduces enough 'pre-loading' that the clamp is already engaging fairly snugly with a push fit over the spindle. It doesn't require any serious effort or pushing down to engage/lock really tightly:nup:. In combination with the Oyaide mat Vinyl Lp's feel like they're glued to the platter if you try & lift from any point around the edge.

.ATB

C.

 

[BB Wan]

Thanks Chris, that's good info! Hadn't really considered a different mat, but by the sounds of it maybe I should. Did a quick search and there's loads available, so I'll have to have a good read up on the subject, starting with the Oyaide you recommend.

Love to look of that weight with the bubble level and strobe markings too (might just have to treat myself to one of those).

Maybe some others have tried other platter mats - be interested to hear any experiences!

 

[Gizza]

I upgraded my Gyro with the Orbe spindle and clamp and thought it very worthwhile, as it clamped records much more effectively. If you read up on the old Gyro articles online, they reckon that the spindle and clamp upgrade gives 70% of the improvement that the full upgrade ( i.e.including orbe platter) would give. For £70 ish, its worth doing.IMO.

 

[stormyuklondon1]

I've got a gyrodec with orbe platter/densodamp/spindle & clamp upgrade. quite an upgrade, as is the never connected psu imo, well worth it.

Ive very recently (yesterday..) replaced my full gyro perspex plinth with an Orbe spider. now that to these ears is another definite improvement. might be a bit of a placebo effect but it seems to have introduced a bit more sparkle, tightened the bass up a touch too. maybe changing to the orbe spider re-introduced that something that was reportedly taken away by the densodamp and the orbe platter..? maybe Ive set it up better after putting the spider on it? who knows? bloody turntables

 

[kernow]

The clamp upgrade often tempts me but .. £80.. bleh.

While the standard gyro clamp is pretty crappy it does pretty much the same job.

 

[vacdac]

I've got a gyrodec with orbe platter/densodamp/spindle & clamp upgrade. quite an upgrade, as is the never connected psu imo, well worth it. Ive very recently (yesterday..) replaced my full gyro perspex plinth with an Orbe spider. now that to these ears is another definite improvement. might be a bit of a placebo effect but it seems to have introduced a bit more sparkle, tightened the bass up a touch too. maybe changing to the orbe spider re-introduced that something that was reportedly taken away by the densodamp and the orbe platter..? maybe Ive set it up better after putting the spider on it? who knows? bloody turntables [/QUOTE]

You could well have a point with this. Many people think the spider is a serious improvement. Having owned a Technoarm in the past, another huge advantage to me is the unfettered access to the arm-boards underside, which make cart & VTA adjustment far far easier. When round at another Wammers earlier this year I had to rotate his full plinth Gyorbe thru' 90 degrees to get easy access to the knurled locknut on his Technoarm. I do love how tweakable these decks are + how they respond to little set up changes & how straightforward this is to accomplish, as is returning to your starting point.

 

[BB Wan]

"70% of the improvement that the full upgrade ( i.e.including orbe platter) would give"

Certainly sounds interesting and good value too Gary!

"...bloody turntables "

I feel like this sometimes Scott, but once you get it set right, boy do they deliver like no other format (IMO).

I've learned over years of ownership that the setup of a Gyro is not to be taken lightly. It makes such a huge difference to the performance, it's frustrating sometimes because I'm not sure you can ever be 100% certain that you are only hearing the benefits of an upgrade and not the fact that you've achieved a better setup! Often makes me wonder about investing in a non-suspension TT....but thats another topic for another day!

The Oyaide mat looks very interesting and seems to be well regarded but the price is certainly not insignificant!!!

The other mat I am seeing a lot with regard to Gyros is the Achromat. Anyone tried one?

 

[glowingtones]

As far as I know clamping records directly to the platter without a secondary mat is recommended by Michell. If in doubt ring Michell they are very helpful. The Orbe clamp kit is the only modification I've made to my stock Gyro SE and because it screws down no serious pressure is needed to lock the clamp - the screw down clamp requires minimum effort. I wouldn't change or add anything else. The Gyro looks and sounds fantastic without constant tinkering, since I set mine up when it was new it has never needed any further fine tuning, I put that down to the Orbe clamp mod.

 

[MrSammy]

It's hard to A/B with and without clamp as fitting it requires removing the old spindle, which in my case needed a vice to hold it. The cost is not unreasonable as it has been nicely machined. It certainly holds the records down more firmly than the standard clamp. Aesthetically it looks slightly worse as it is higher than the old clamp.

 

[vacdac]

It's hard to A/B with and without clamp as fitting it requires removing the old spindle, which in my case needed a vice to hold it. The cost is not unreasonable as it has been nicely machined. It certainly holds the records down more firmly than the standard clamp. Aesthetically it looks slightly worse as it is higher than the old clamp.

The tweak I came up with to 'Pre-Load' the Standard Michell clamp is highly effective. At least when used with the recurved profile* Oyaide MJ-12 mat.(*Michell themselves offered a dished platter at one time IIRC) When clamped Vinyl L.P.'s even at the edges feel extremely securely mated to the mat. The modded clamp can also easily be placed/tightened with a single handed operation. :^ I've also had much better success at ironing out fairly significant warps that I've not had any success with in the past. Despite trying many types of home made label inserts of varying thickness & Michells hopeless felt washer with the bare platter as recommended by Michell themselves. I've tried countless different combinations/configs inc. using compliant foam inserts above the label too.

My mod costs peanuts to simply try. Maplin do a multi size box of 'O' rings that's handy to have knockin' about for £2-99.

 

[kernow]

I don't use the felt washer at all with my gyro clamp. Never saw the point.

 

[vacdac]

I don't use the felt washer at all with my gyro clamp. Never saw the point.

Lol Shaun......despite your habit of breaking things, you've arrived at the correct answer in short order! :^ The felt washer is entirely SHIT!!!

Just saying I've tried it every which way, as well as some alternatives, with slightly greater success, but all entirely shit compared to my current solution. Which is simple & just works....although at some expense of c re the Oyaide Mat.

If any of the acrylic type mats offer a recurved/dished profile these could also be effective.

 

[Tarzan]

The tweak I came up with to 'Pre-Load' the Standard Michell clamp is highly effective. At least when used with the recurved profile* Oyaide MJ-12 mat.(*Michell themselves offered a dished platter at one time IIRC) When clamped Vinyl L.P.'s even at the edges feel extremely securely mated to the mat. The modded clamp can also easily be placed/tightened with a single handed operation. :^ I've also had much better success at ironing out fairly significant warps that I've not had any success with in the past. Despite trying many types of home made label inserts of varying thickness & Michells hopeless felt washer with the bare platter as recommended by Michell themselves. I've tried countless different combinations/configs inc. using compliant foam inserts above the label too.My mod costs peanuts to simply try. Maplin do a multi size box of 'O' rings that's handy to have knockin' about for £2-99.

l am in the process of trying this tweak at the moment Chris, and it has certainly changed the sound...... more testing to follow.

 

[vacdac]

Nice one Andy. :^

Initially, until you get used to the change in feel, there can be a tendency to over tighten the knurled knob. I mashed the first 'o' ring in a couple of weeks, but the second is still all good getting on for 3yrs later. :^ If you bought the box from Maplin, you should have a lifetimes spares, if needed.

It's a good little mod I think. I'd be interested to hear your further thoughts mate. op:

 

[Tarzan]

Nice one Andy. :^ Initially, until you get used to the change in feel, there can be a tendency to over tighten the knurled knob. I mashed the first 'o' ring in a couple of weeks, but the second is still all good getting on for 3yrs later. :^ If you bought the box from Maplin, you should have a lifetimes spares, if needed.

It's a good little mod I think. I'd be interested to hear your further thoughts mate. op:

Will do mate.

 

[Tarzan]

Er Chris's tweak certainly does clamp the record to the patter ALOT more firmly. :^