Mono inspired TT shootout, Thorens 124 v Rock-a-like DIY

[Speedracer]

Right, so one of the many friends I have made through this forum has very similar ideas to me about how we like our music reproduced, albeit with much more experience & knowledge that myself; this particular friend is Non-Smoking Man/Jack, & we are often back & forth to our respective abodes listening to bits or kit, or experimenting, or just even enjoying music without fiddling(imagine that!).

Some will know that I recently bought a second deck in order to exclusively play mono records, old jazz, Beatles, 'Stones, that sort of thing, so I wouldn't have to fanny about changing carts every few days, a slightly modded Lenco GL75, & I am very happy with the sound this produces. However, I couldn't resist trying a Mono Lyra Helikon MC cart on my main deck, a DIY build based loosely on a Townshend Rock 7, & mightily pleased I was with what I heard, so much so I asked Jack if I could take it over to his & see how it compared to his Thorens TD124, with a big layered birch ply plinth, Wilson Benesch Act 0.5 (I think) unipivot 'arm & a mono'ed Decca Gold MI cart. The rest of his system on the day included a DIY F5 power amp, Consonance Basie pre, with a Welborne Labs clone MM phono into a Partridge step up for my Lyra, & out via his lovely Janzsen  QW transmission line speakers.

Now I think my 'Rock-ish deck is pretty good, it has been made from scratch from acrylic, steel plate & aluminium to visually resemble the 'Rock 7, using Sorborthane for a little compliance; the Townshend bits used were the trough, platter, sub platter & bearing/spindle, with a Rega DC motor, regulator & speed controller & used an 'arm called an ARB, made by the guy who made the TT. I have had a very speed stability issues recently but the regulator & speed controller were sent back to the maker & he fitted new boards, improved the wiring & changed the trim pots, and was now fine.  Looking at the Thorens I was struck by the task at hand, my combo had no chance, did it?

We concentrated on just a few tracks to keep familiarity in the forefront, I brought my copy of Beatles for Sale, an original which although looked less than pristine, sounded much better. We played the first side a couple of times to get everything warmed through & I was happy with the level of detail, vibrancy & how clean it all sounded, very nice, I was pleased. We then listened to selected tracks from the White Album, where clear differences in recording techniques were highlighted, a really vivid display of how The Beatles changed from a '60's pop band into a full blown rock band. To my mind nothing does instrument realism & excitement like a good mono record, & we both thought that my deck was bringing that out of the grooves. Then we played a couple of tracks from a recent acquisition of Jacks, a copy of the first Rolling Stones LP, quite a rare version we believed, & the track "I'm a King Bee", a brilliant foot tapping track full of energy & vitality. Again I was more than happy with the sound, & Jack was very complimentary too, but now it was time for his Thorens, after a bit of cable swapping we were ready to go back to the Beatles For Sale LP. First off we were a little disappointed, the level of detail wasn't quite the same & it sounded a bit flat. We had turned the electronics off for a bit to change the cables so things had cooled down, but even so there was a drop in quality we both heard. We decided to play Jacks copy of the same LP, as there was a bit of smearing with mine that wasn't evident first time around, & straight away the sound improved, & it was clear that his copy was better than mine, plus by now things had warmed up again & his Thorens was coming on song. Extra detail was coming through, although I think my deck still had the edge there, but Jack wasn't happy & decided to experiment with platter mats. This is more important with his deck compared to others, I will let him explain later, but I believe he doesn't use to top platter on his deck like most do, but after trying a few out he settled on the right one & it was back to the White Album. Things were notably better now, each instrument was easier to follow, the sound seemed to "fill out" more, with a bit more finesse and meat on the bone, as it were. I am hoping Jack will expand more on this, as I have waffled on for far too long already, but anyway.........

We finished off with a reissue I have recently purchased of Kind of Blue, a double LP this with a mono LP & a stereo one too. We didn't play this on my deck, but on Jacks it sounded superb, super smooth, sophisticated, of course it is a brilliant LP with stellar musicians, but it sounded so right, so perfect, it was a fitting end to a very interesting day.

If we were to evaluate the findings we might each of us come down on the side of our own decks; for me my DIY TT showed itself to be capable, very much so, becoming much more than the sum of its parts. The speed was rock steady, so that put my mind to rest after its teething problems, the sound was exciting, detailed, foot tapping, grown up sounding if that makes any sense. I was happy, very happy. Jacks deck started slow, he will admit that, but it came on song at the end, & honestly I thought it better than mine in every way apart for detail retrieval, which I thought mine just shaded, I wasn't quite there but I wasn't far off. 

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

I really enjoy having a hifi visitor as we usually  benefit in some way and it keeps me on my toes. Also, I must admit, it gives me extra hifi motivation. Brook has been over before and on one occasion with this  Elite Rock in standard form with a Rega and a Goldring cartridge. In comparison with the original Cranfield Rock/ rewired Alphason HR100MCS/Cadenza Blue it didnt cut the mustard, and it had no right to.

The mods Brook has done have brought it much closer to the Cran Rock. This was evident because the first comparison we did was with the resident Cran Rock/Alphason/AT0C9mk 2, or 3 (cant remember which) . We didnt play the same record because Brook's cartridge is the mono Helicon and I was using the stereo OC9 - both are moving coils though so the ancilliaries, including step up were identical.

The focus for me was this water damaged record collection I picked up in Ashtead whilst doing a record fair there. (Occasionally, people come in asking  if we will buy their collection. This usually is not much more than car boot stuff, but the couple did mention 'the beatles', so I dropped by after the fair was over.)

Most of it was in white 'inners' and no outer covers due to damage during storage. This didnt augur well for the state of the vinyl. However, we agreed a price and I crammed it into the Honda estate and headed home.

I was mindful I had Brook's VPI RCM at home and so I had every chance of cleaning the discs up, but it was still a gamble. I gave the better titles a double clean and these included several Beatles albums as promised, including The White Album, and a Sgt Pepper, plus a very interesting Decca mono Rolling Stones album on the red and silver label with the XARL marking on the label. This promised to be a first pressing worth telephone numbers. I had warned Brook about this album via pm beforehand so he could bring something to remove the white speckled paint on one side! No cover with the Stones album and none with the White Album either.

Brook got to work on the paint and I switched from the Cran Rock to the TD124/Wilson Benesch (yes, Act 0.5) and Decca Gold (mono) that had performed so well at Kegworth. Now we would see the two mono front ends going head to head. Neither of us would predict the outcome but we gave Brook's modded Rock.DIY Unipivot/Helicon  front end quite a work out with the newly scrubbed Beatles monos from this Ashtead collection. Right well was it sounding too. The 'Beatles for Sale' album was good and the tension built as we prepared to try The White Album and see if it would play. We played all 4 sides and sounded ok - not very much surface noise.

We had to give the Stones album a spin to see if that would play and it did. Wunderba! I hadnt done my money. And I love this album.

Now it was time to switch to the Thorens. I had powered down to remove the SUT from the system as the Decca doesnt need a step up. On first hearing the Thorens/WB/Decca combo was vibrant but a little splashy. Brook commented it wasnt as detailed as the Rock. I wasnt so sure, but the presentation wasnt what it might be.Maybe the First Watt F5 had cooled off (it needs an hour to come on song)?

Brook (who has had a Decca Gold) thought the stylus rake angle was odd so I thought I would add a platter mat to alter it. It was then I discovered that we had had the wrong platter mat on it! (And during the whole of Kegworth!). My number one platter mat on the idlerdriven Thorens was a Sound Dead Steel mat bonded to a thin cork mat and that had been away on another Thorens being refurbished. But now it was back and I quickly replaced the one we had been using with the SDS one and tried the extra rubber mat to adjust stylus rake angle. This was better but had lost the Decca pezazz (sp?). Hummm, maybe my techie was right in his set up so we removed the extra rubber mat and then we had everything - less brightness, good detail, and that decca 'get up and go'. We tried some beatles and then Brook's Miles Davis album which was sublime. We both were taken aback by how much the mat had improved the sound. Well, yes and no, because I know with idlers damping the platter is very important as motor vibration is the problem with this type of drive and I had given my eventual choice of the SDS some thought.

I have to thank Brook for some great work cleaning the Rolling Stones album. Slightly disappointing was the discovery that we were one matrix number away from a first pressing, but, hey, its a great album. Most of the collection was a bit dodgy but with the mono titles you have a better chance of playability when badly stored or scratched because of groove depth. Of course you must use a real mono cartridge with only lateral generators - if you use a stereo cartridge to play mono records the vertical generator will just pick up noise.

A satisfying day - and there wasnt much between the two mono set ups. I am really proud of my mono Thorens set up and Brook should be similarly proud of what he has (bravely) done with the Rock.

Jack NSM

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

A word or two on my TD124...

Its not standard issue, inasmuch that I remove the aluminium top platter. i consider this item resonant and not needed in practical domestic playback - or any playback for that matter. Its a device that can be raised by a little lever at 9 o'clock and allows a DJ (broadcasting on the radio in the day) to cue up his cartridge sitting on the stationary top platter whilst the main platter is spinning away. When the time comes he, or she, pulls the lever and the platter, record, and cartridge drop down and immediately are at speed. So its all about start up and cuing. Who needs that at home?

Instead I take it off. (Its a simple lift off.) This gives me a problem of arm height adjustment as the resultant platter is too low for the scope of arm height adjustment available with almost every arm, bar a Hadcock 228! So, to raise the platter and aid damping I use a platter mat. And I ended up choosing the Sound Dead Steel aftermarket platter mat. There will be others as good (eg some of the copper ones) but these are reasonably priced. Now there is no cut out for the record label and the interface with your vinyl a touch industrial so I used a cork top mat with label cut away. You have to glue them because the cork lifts off with the record.

The other thing I do which also annoys the traditionalists is to remove the rubber grommets that isolate the chassis from the chosen plinth. My reasoning is why get yourself a massy plinth to damp the thing and then isolate the chassis from it? Surely it makes more sense to clamp them together (using the long bolts that c/w the deck) and maximise the damping effect. (These grommets have usually had it by 2018 anyway.)

Further in the damping direction I bought a large plinth (in Baltic ply) which takes a 12" arm to increase the mass. Four sorbothane feet were chosen for ease of use and cheapness. There is scope for further experimentation here.

My techie (Martin) and I have had 4 or 5 TD124s and we know they are serious competition for my Cran Rock. Furthermore it is the deck of choice of my friend Montesquieu (ex wammer) who has had a Rock Reference, a Voyd reference, a 401 and many other TTs.