My digital journey

[Roby79]

grr dammed my usb is just to short to start playing with HQ player

Will have to order one , but make sens to me the reviewer use HQ as he sit's at his computer

question wich one ... supra, AQ cinemanon... let's go shopping see if I find any nice discount... don't want a super expensive fancy cable just a decent one let's say tops a 100€ tops for 3M

I think that's what I need to get to the couch for the moment

 

[CnoEvil]

When you have an all-in-one you'll need a lot more isolation than just USB. All internal processing activity is generating noise and this noise is not constant but bursts.
The ideal layout is to have all processing performed outside of the DAC box and send the digital audio datastream straight into the D/A stage. With some TI/BurrBrown and AKM chips it is possible to bypass all internal DSP and the Sigma-Delta Modulator, same with discrete DACs such as the Holo models.
This is the diagram of the AK4493EQ chip in my DAC, showing that by feeding it filtered DSD the signal goes straight into the D/A stage; if you feed it PCM or wish to use the on-board digital volume control the signal has to go through DSP and the SDM modulator which converts it to DSD and such processing not only generates noise but it is less refined than using HQ Player's algorithms off-board.

Agreed - though I was specifically talking about preventing noise from the PC getting into the DAC.

Rightly or wrongly, I let Linn figure this out.....which in my case is using Katalyst DAC architecture: https://radio.linn.co.uk/technology/katalyst

They have further improved matters with Organik...albeit at a hefty premium.

If I was doing it all again and if I had support from my Dealer carrying the components.....I would probably go in a similar direction to ChemMan and Roby.

As it stands, I don't see any changes to my great sounding ADS/3, unless I can find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

 

[CnoEvil]

Will have to order one , but make sens to me the reviewer use HQ as he sit's at his computer

question wich one ... supra, AQ cinemanon... let's go shopping see if I find any nice discount... don't want a super expensive fancy cable just a decent one let's say tops a 100€ tops for 3M

I think that's what I need to get to the couch for the moment

I don't use USB - but have liked those from Vertere and Telurium Q when I heard them demonstrated.

I have heard good things about what you have mentioned as well.

 

[Roby79]

I don't use USB - but have liked those from Vertere and Telurium Q when I heard them demonstrated.

I have heard good things about what you have mentioned as well.

btw nothing to do with this all but Supra is used as internal wire of Sonus Faber
It's a Swedish company

 

[tuga]

Agreed - though I was specifically talking about preventing noise from the PC getting into the DAC.

Rightly or wrongly, I let Linn figure this out.....which in my case is using Katalyst DAC architecture: https://radio.linn.co.uk/technology/katalyst

They have further improved matters with Organik...albeit at a hefty premium.

If I was doing it all again and if I had support from my Dealer carrying the components.....I would probably go in a similar direction to ChemMan and Roby.

As it stands, I don't see any changes to my great sounding ADS/3, unless I can find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

Your Akurate is a dedicated PC. And by dedicated I mean that care was taken to reduce the effects of noise and the processing activity and processes are reduced to the essential.

The Organik uses a similar approach to what I indicated earlier: upconversion to 'DSD' and straight into the discrete D/A stage, but the digital processing is all done on-board.

 

[tuga]

Will have to order one , but make sens to me the reviewer use HQ as he sit's at his computer

question wich one ... supra, AQ cinemanon... let's go shopping see if I find any nice discount... don't want a super expensive fancy cable just a decent one let's say tops a 100€ tops for 3M

I think that's what I need to get to the couch for the moment

HQ Player's developer uses Supra USB cables. He has a negative view on audiophile cables which generally do not abide to the interface standard and can cause issues.
I use a basic Lindy with a TDK ferrite bead for USB cables.

 

[tuga]

btw nothing to do with this all but Supra is used as internal wire of Sonus Faber
It's a Swedish company

Supra also manufactures cables for medical and military applications. In other words, it's products are no-nonse, fit for purpose, mostly free from audiophile foolishness.
This is digital audio we are discussing here, you'll want the best conductor.

 

[Roby79]

To be honest I bought a supra powerstrip for my second office an its nice quality verry happy
I got it at a really nice price like 45% or so

don't really dare to compare it to my Kemp strip that I bought in 2019 for 15x more

now I hesitate Bleu Ice 52.50 for 3M or Excalibur 113 for 3M

I'm tempted don't really think it will be better but it looks pretty cool

 

[tuga]

To be honest I bought a supra powerstrip for my second office an its nice quality verry happy
I got it at a really nice price like 45% or so

don't really dare to compare it to my Kemp strip that I bought in 2019 for 15x more

now I hesitate Bleu Ice 52.50 for 3M or Excalibur 113 for 3M

I'm tempted don't really think it will be better but it looks pretty cool

I am not saying that a strip will or won't make a difference since it may filter noise to which some electronic equipment may be more sensitive to (than it should).
But in digital our biggest worry must be 1) robustness / data integrity and 2) noise 'control'; the requirements and effects are different to the analogue signal's.

 

[Roby79]

I am not saying that a strip will or won't make a difference since it may filter noise to which some electronic equipment may be more sensitive to (than it should).
But in digital our biggest worry must be 1) robustness / data integrity and 2) noise 'control'; the requirements and effects are different to the analogue signal's.

Didn't really ment to talk about power provisioning, its's just to say I'm already familiar with the brand an think it's trustworthy an at a acceptable price

I think I buy the Excalibur I did more stupid more expensive stuff in my Hifi Hobby
got a 10ù of so its 107 for excalibur

 

[Roby79]

In all this keep my asking a question as I rarely sold a piece of gear except the Musical Fidelity M1 Vinyl
what would be an honest price for a 3m old Moon 280D (3750€ new) I know it hase nothing to do with all this but don't really have elsewhere to ask an maybe I'm expecting to much

 

[Roby79]

Will have to order one , but make sens to me the reviewer use HQ as he sit's at his computer

question wich one ... supra, AQ cinemanon... let's go shopping see if I find any nice discount... don't want a super expensive fancy cable just a decent one let's say tops a 100€ tops for 3M

I think that's what I need to get to the couch for the moment

Ordered the supra Excalibur 3M if it isn't any better than the Blue ice I lose 55€

3m I'm able to sit in the couch with my laptop, until I'm fully convinced

 

[Roby79]

@tuga you are laughing, haha
but you should see what I stocked ... best ting I still don't understand why I dis Is buying a wall mount for my TT a 500€ peace of art from Solid Steel, bought it 10y ago in the same time as my rack ... it's still in the unopened box
then there a cables I don't use not to special but not basic walmarkt cables you can imagine.
Then there is the stuff I actually use, but still ask my self why I spent so much on it... Like a lamp on my TT or the weight on the vinyl's or why in hell I bought 4.6m speaker cable pair ? as 3 or3.5 would have been enough an would have saved me some thing like 500€ back in the day +
+ now I only need 2.5 m or even 2M should be ok, but couldn't know that back then..

But ok it's part of the hobby, you should see how my 2 other hobby's got out of controle
good my gf made me sell 2 motorcycles over the last 2 years have 3 left an try to sell one

an climbing gear that's nightmare... but she is a climber as well so she care less

 

[tuga]

@tuga you are laughing, haha
but you should see what I stocked ... best ting I still don't understand why I dis Is buying a wall mount for my TT a 500€ peace of art from Solid Steel, bought it 10y ago in the same time as my rack ... it's still in the unopened box
then there a cables I don't use not to special but not basic walmarkt cables you can imagine.
Then there is the stuff I actually use, but still ask my self why I spent so much on it... Like a lamp on my TT or the weight on the vinyl's or why in hell I bought 4.6m speaker cable pair ? as 3 or3.5 would have been enough an would have saved me some thing like 500€ back in the day +
+ now I only need 2.5 m or even 2M should be ok, but couldn't know that back then..

But ok it's part of the hobby, you should see how my 2 other hobby's got out of controle
good my gf made me sell 2 motorcycles over the last 2 years have 3 left an try to sell one

an climbing gear that's nightmare... but she is a climber as well so she care less

It's very easy to keep stuff one doesn't need or use. What's saved me from that chaos is that I've had to move home 4 times in the past 9 years, that has made me very frugal to the point that I intend to replace my amplifier and speakers with a pair of small active standmounts.

 

[Roby79]

How can I explain to some one ( that some one is my dealer ) because he say's I'm crazy...

That the Moon is a perfect performer, it doesn't make mistakes what so ever

It's just don't wan a make me sing an dance...

I don't feel it, an I'm sure it's a mater of taste, because I cant point out any flaws

That's why he think I'm crazy I guess

 

[Roby79]

It's very easy to keep stuff one doesn't need or use. What's saved me from that chaos is that I've had to move home 4 times in the past 9 years, that has made me very frugal to the point that I intend to replace my amplifier and speakers with a pair of small active standmounts.

understandable, I moved my gear only once in 11 years an don't intend to move anytime soon or in the house maybe) just bought the house

Sell thinks just make me nervous people giving unrealistic prices, Scams like the one who was interested in the Moon

I hate it I'm not a salesman
When I sell something it's in perfect condition, or I don't sell it an give it away most of the time

 

[whitehart]

If you've followed the thread about network logic in the Computer Audio section you'll have seen evidence of noise affecting the clock and D/A stages. For that reason having all in one box is far from ideal, although I would assume that it is possible to minimise those effects with some good engineering.
On top of that, you need much higher processing power to achieve the highest DSP (upsampling, EQ) performance than what is available inside any upsampling hi-fi box including the MScaler, which is why the Dutch & Dutch 8C processes internally at only 24/48 and the Grimm MU1 can only output 192kHz.
The old maxim "Jack of all trades, master of none" applies.

Sorry, couldn't think of anything more boring... the minutia that you go into, I understand may be very informative for some, but the effort to absorb it into this mere human's brain would just spoil the enjoyment of my system and the wonderful sound it produces.
Mac

 

[Roby79]

Sorry, couldn't think of anything more boring... the minutia that you go into, I understand may be very informative for some, but the effort to absorb it into this mere human's brain would just spoil the enjoyment of my system and the wonderful sound it produces.
Mac

Numbers don't say everything.... I think we all heard devices who mesure extremely well , but just don't work for us
There are plenty of factors coming in to play, the first one's is our ears an brain

 

[CnoEvil]

Numbers don't say everything.... I think we all heard devices who mesure extremely well , but just don't work for us
There are plenty of factors coming in to play, the first one's is our ears an brain

Remembering of course, that your AMS35i measures exceedingly well - as do the Holo DACs.

On one hand, good measurements are no guarantee you will like something; but on the other hand, stuff you really like, often does measure well.

 

[Roby79]

Remembering of course, that your AMS35i measures exceedingly well - as do the Holo DACs.

On one hand, good measurements are no guarantee you will like something; but on the other hand, stuff you really like, often does measure well.

Exactly what I ment, you have a better choice of words