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NAS on NG KDSM?

Paulssurround

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I have absolutely no fu***** clue about 5.1 content streaming from a NAS but apparently the No 1 Surround Expert here in this forum managed to get a painless solution up and running:

Link to the thread from Sep 2020: https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/th...l-katalyst-surround-system.96184/post-1949299
Great topic Chris 1970

Thank you Jens for you kind support

It was a bit of work, but this year, I managed to rip my whole collection of SACD’s And DVD Audio discs in 5.1. I have not been able to rip my DTS discs and am considering buying a BluRay ripper for my BluRay 5.1 music concert discs. Perhaps that would be a good winter project.

A bit of an update since I posted on that thread.

I now use a Klimax DSM/3 Hub, which has further enhanced the sound quality of streaming 5.1 content from my NAS through my OPPO 203. Playing 5.1 discs through the OPPO 203 can be a slightly warmer sound than streaming the same discs through the NAS, but with my upgrades to the Klimax and network components, the musical enjoyment is virtually identical. I almost always choose to stream my 5.1 content, compared to spinning a disc.

Another winter project will be to catalog all my 5.1 discs on Discogs, to get an idea of what my 5.1 collection is worth.

For stereo music, I stream from my NAS and also from Tidal. I find the sound quality of music on the NAS is slightly better than Tidal, but again, does not detract from my enjoyment of the music at all listening to Tidal. We don’t have Qobuz in Canada, and unlikely to ever get it

One of my audio buddies here had all his music on his RIPNAS, but then was introduced to Tidal. The sound quality for his RIPNAS was marginally better on his RIPNAS than on Tidal, but he decided to shut down the RIPNAS and streams music exclusively though Tidal now.
 

akamatsu

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Hi Michael - I use DBPowerAmp on a Mac and Minimserver on the NAS. With DBPoweramp it pays to really think about how you are going to catalogue the whole collection before you rip your first CD- I've given up on trying to re-assign things at a later date. I often wonder whether it was worth the initial effort - but in those days streaming services were MP3 or really expensive and limited. My NAS is now 10 years old - this concerns me a little as it is basically a 10yr old computer. Also, QNAP don't appear to be the most secure things on the planet. However, as posted above, it is sooo much easier to access my own music than to make playlists (on. let's face it, a platform that could change its modus operandi in a heartbeat). I find that the Linn boxes in the loft make great CD storage units!
Same set up as mine. I have DBPoweramp on an old computer. I went to download a new copy for the new computer and I find that it now costs money? I was wondering if a free version is still available. If not, I'll go ahead and purchase a copy for the new computer.

When I first got the NAS, I ripped 12 CDs. I then realized that I do need to think about how to catalogue before proceeding. Then Qobuz/Tidal just sort of took over and the CD ripping stopped.
 
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Paulssurround

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I‘m quite sure that even with the latest Linn Streamer the infrastructure (Router, Switch, NAS, Ethernet Cables, …) is still very important.
Yes, absolutely important.

With the new Klimax DSM/3, and the right setup for your infrastructure, streaming can now sound as enjoyable to analog for most recordings

However, in your case, you have 6000 vinyl records, of which many are recordings that do not exist digitally, or extremely difficult to find digitally

You get the best of both worlds.
 

akamatsu

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Also bear in mind that not all CDs by bands are on Qobuz, I have a number on my NAS and owned that are not there nor I think ever will be.
One of my current favourite albums is not available on LP, it's not on Qobuz, the CD is out of print, but it's available on Tidal. I feel as though I'm dangling by a thread! There are two used copies on Discogs. The cheaper of the two is over $100. I'm just not at the point of paying that much.
 
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akamatsu

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My only complaint on a NAS is I can’t get linn to play 5.1 from a network source only via HDMI which is a pain
I just had a look at Linn Docs. The diagrams for various surround sound setups show a blu-ray player feeding encoded bitstream to a surround processor equipped DSM. My NAS has an HDMI port. For some reason I think that connecting from the NAS directly to a surround enabled DSM wouldn't work. But I don't know why it wouldn't.
 

Paulssurround

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Same set up as mine. I have DBPoweramp on an old computer. I went to download a new copy for the new computer and I find that it now costs money? I was wondering if a free version is still available. If not, I'll go ahead and purchase a copy for the new computer.

When I first got the NAS, I ripped 12 CDs. I realized that I do need to think about how to catalogue before proceeding. Then Qobuz/Tidal just sort of took over and the CD ripping stopped.
If you rip your music by DBPoweramp, you may want to consider running all your ripped files through SongKong after your rips.

SongKong will do all the meta data, album art, and check all the file data compared to reference files to ensure you have complete and accurate files.
 

Paulssurround

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So we can agree that really musical digital products are new…
Yes, I have noticed a big improvement in my system over the last couple of years with streaming music .

For example, Tidal a few years ago was not great sound quality, but has improved significantly in recent times and rivals music on the NAS in many cases

The purchase of my Klimax DSM/3 has brought new levels of sound quality and enjoyment to streaming unimaginable a couple of years ago, with a far more organic and natural sound quality

The introduction of better quality switches, power supplies, Ethernet cables has taken away the digital edge to the music that existed prior to the introduction of these products. The music is now the most musical, realistic and organic sounding it has ever been.
 

Paulssurround

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@Dasher - I use a 10 year old Mac mini with Thunderbolt Attached Storage. No worries about security as I block Internet Access to and from it. Could you do the same with your QNAP then you should not have to worry about its security?

A reason Roon didn’t appeal was its dependence on the Internet. I too try to tag right directly after ripping or downloading (on an old MacBook) with XLD Secure Ripper (should give same rip as dBPowerAmp as it checks against AccurateRip. I use Metadatics, LyricsFinder and JRiver Analyser to complete the rest of the tags (Dynamic Range, Peak Levels, HDCD etc.).

I tend to search in the same way I would with a physical collection. I usually play entire albums.
You may want to check out SongKong to do a one step check of all the meta data, album art and ensure the rip is complete and accurate.
 

Paulssurround

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I just had a look at Linn Docs. The diagrams for various surround sound setups show a blu-ray player feeding encoded bitstream to a surround processor equipped DSM. My NAS has an HDMI port. For some reason I think that connecting from the NAS directly to a surround enabled DSM wouldn't work. But I don't know why it wouldn't.
To stream 5.1 music from a NAS, you need to convert the digital stream to LPCM, such as with a BluRay player, so the Linn streamer can recognize it.

My previous Akurate Hub and now my Klimax DSM/3 Hub do an exceptional job of taking the PCM stream and creating discrete 5.1 channels of music
 

Coalboy68

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Yes I want to run 5.1 direct from NAS over Ethernet, I can use the NAS to oppo or my Sony Blu-ray but it’s an extra step which I am sure Linn could work on
 
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Chris 1970

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If you rip your music by DBPoweramp, you may want to consider running all your ripped files through SongKong after your rips.

SongKong will do all the meta data, album art, and check all the file data compared to reference files to ensure you have complete and accurate files.

Thanks Paul :)


So, the solution seems in 2 steps:
1) copy CDs with DBPowerramp on the NAS connected to a Mac (via the house network),
2) open SondKong on the Mac to check the files and identify them and complete data.
Then, the Linn app on iPhone or Kazoo on Mac will be able to recognize these files(+++) as albums?


Second stupid questions:
Is Room able to do what SondKong do, or it's not his job?
If not, what is the benefice of Roon, for those who use it?


Like Nestor – and a lot of people here I suppose – to be able to make different selections of albums (and not just tracks), like you would do with physical discs, is a real concern.
Is Roon capable of that?

Again about Roon: I remember someone saying on the forum that Roon compress files in some way, unlike Linn app………………………
 
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Nestor Turton

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You may want to check out SongKong to do a one step check of all the meta data, album art and ensure the rip is complete and accurate.
Thanks Paul

I have Illustrate's PerfectTunes from dBPowerAmp stable and usually check my rips with it, but as XLD uses the same AccurateRip database, the two reports are the same. If SongKong validates differently then I’ll certainly try it.

My Metadata is reasonable, but could do with more song credits. Classical composers are fine as are mainstream song writers, but with some more obscure albums, not even the CD booklet helps. I use my own calculated Metadata so I can find things. If looking for the album Introduction by We Intend To Cause Havoc (aka W.I.T.C.H or Witch), I’d look in

Cabinet: African
Drawer: Zambian Rock
Albums: Witch
Album: Introduction

On my screen it looks like this - the cover art for the most recent two albums is the same on their CDs (I might change that though)

1667950558881.png
There is a search wizard if I forget where I've filed an album.

I realise it is non-standard, but it works for me and simply clicking on an album plays it through my ADSM, MDSM or Chord system depending on which room I select. It uses UPnP on the DSMs. I can use the Linn app instead, but I can't hear any difference so stay with the above.

When it plays if I click on the album cover then lyrics of the currently playing track are displayed (assuming LyricFinder found them when ripping).

My own strange method is not for everyone/anyone else, but can be more reliable than some dedicated rippers such as Naim's UnitiCore, which when I tried it did not produce AccurateRips (there was an offset error acknowledge by Naim - it may be fixed now) and produced some interesting metadata for albums such as Dark Side of the Moon by Medicine Head from 1972.
 

Paulssurround

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Thanks Paul

I have Illustrate's PerfectTunes from dBPowerAmp stable and usually check my rips with it, but as XLD uses the same AccurateRip database, the two reports are the same. If SongKong validates differently then I’ll certainly try it.

My Metadata is reasonable, but could do with more song credits. Classical composers are fine as are mainstream song writers, but with some more obscure albums, not even the CD booklet helps. I use my own calculated Metadata so I can find things. If looking for the album Introduction by We Intend To Cause Havoc (aka W.I.T.C.H or Witch), I’d look in

Cabinet: African
Drawer: Zambian Rock
Albums: Witch
Album: Introduction

On my screen it looks like this - the cover art for the most recent two albums is the same on their CDs (I might change that though)

1667950558881.png
There is a search wizard if I forget where I've filed an album.

I realise it is non-standard, but it works for me and simply clicking on an album plays it through my ADSM, MDSM or Chord system depending on which room I select. It uses UPnP on the DSMs. I can use the Linn app instead, but I can't hear any difference so stay with the above.

When it plays if I click on the album cover then lyrics of the currently playing track are displayed (assuming LyricFinder found them when ripping).

My own strange method is not for everyone/anyone else, but can be more reliable than some dedicated rippers such as Naim's UnitiCore, which when I tried it did not produce AccurateRips (there was an offset error acknowledge by Naim - it may be fixed now) and produced some interesting metadata for albums such as Dark Side of the Moon by Medicine Head from 1972.
Thank you for that information Nestor. Sounds like a good approach

SongKong compares the data from at least 3 or 4 different data bases to ensure accuracy and completeness.
 

dikki

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Second stupid questions:
Is Room able to do what SondKong do, or it's not his job?
If not, what is the benefice of Roon, for those who use it?


Like Nestor – and a lot of people here I suppose – to be able to make different selections of albums (and not just tracks), like you would do with physical discs, is a real concern.
Is Roon capable of that?

Again about Roon: I remember someone saying on the forum that Roon compress files in some way, unlike Linn app………………………
I have used minim server (I think it is still installed) but moved over to Roon some time ago. I hope I can answer some of your questions there.

Roon is using the existing tags to identify an album using some kind of trademarked secret. I suppose it does matching using the known databases that SongKong can also use, but it adds more on top and in my opinion is better able to match.
After that, it is not overwriting your tags, instead it is keeping both sets, which allows you to choose which one to use. You can do that per album, with a default setting to be used whenever nothing is set. In other words: you can ignore this capability altogether, but in rare cases it allows you to rectify any mistakes.
But there is more: Roon gives also some editorial content about albums, artists, basically anyone connected to the recording, up to recording engineers, producers, etc. Giving you the possibility to check which other recordings this particular producer created.
SinceI listen mostly to classical music and jazz, I like the interface in particular for that. Composers are defined as composers, not artists. Works can consist of more parts and still show up as one work (a symphony consisting of multiple tracks is a nice example).

That last thing I was able to do in minim server with a little tag trickery, but it was a lot of work.

I don't think I've seen something like a catalogue on Roon, other than what is already mentioned. It has its own system to mark albums as favourites, but that's about it.

No compression in Roon, but what might happen is that Roon's DSP downsamples the file before delivering it to your DS/M. That happens when the DS/M is not able to process the file otherwise. My MDSM for instance is not able to process DSD files, so those get downsampled in the signal path. The Roon interface shows if and when that happens.
Other than that Roon offers a DSP that I'm not using, so I don't have the experience to tell you about that.
 

maddog_007

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I ripped my cd collection when I sold my Ikemi spinner early 2000's.
Used various Squeezebox streamers before climbing aboard Linn's DS .
My latest Nas is from Asustor with 2 x 2.5G ports and ssd caching.
I know I keep banging on about it, but if you like a piece of music that much, then buy it. Regardless of it being a download, record or CD. With streaming, you run the risk of it mysteriously disappearing overnight, because the streaming service’s right to use license has expired.
Here Here!...I download my classical music purchases from Hyperion.
 

Nestor Turton

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@Nestor Turton what control point software do you use that is able to display lyrics?
JRiver Media Centre Panel (https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Panel)

These are my top layer cabinets

1668011638778.png

Here are the Drawers within the Beatles Cabinet

1668011752390.png

If I go into Ringo's Drawer, I get

1668011832417.png

Clicking Ringo's Singles

1668011902180.png

Then it plays and I can sing along - might seem a bit laborious, but it is quite quick to do and the next tracks in the album or in this case the flip side of the single play automatically and display the lyrics

1668011315199.png
 

Chris 1970

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JRiver Media Centre Panel (https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Panel)

These are my top layer cabinets

1668011638778.png

Here are the Drawers within the Beatles Cabinet

1668011752390.png

If I go into Ringo's Drawer, I get

1668011832417.png

Clicking Ringo's Singles

1668011902180.png

Then it plays and I can sing along - might seem a bit laborious, but it is quite quick to do and the next tracks in the album or in this case the flip side of the single play automatically and display the lyrics

1668011315199.png
This is what I call a personal catalogue! Well done 👍
 

wildwildWes

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One of my current favourite albums is not available on LP, it's not on Qobuz, the CD is out of print, but it's available on Tidal. I feel as though I'm dangling by a thread! There are two used copies on Discogs. The cheaper of the two is over $100. I'm just not at the point of paying that much.
Don't leave us hangin', what's the album?
 

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