New cartridge to suit tonearm or new cartridge to suit phono stage?

[Motortown review]

Which is more important when choosing a new cartridge, buy to suit the arm or phono stage, or somewhere to suit both?

Currently have SME 309 with Audio Technica OC9 XML with Trilogy 906 phono stage, I can't say the AT as ever really set my vinyl world on fire, and much prefer my AT440 MBL.

Are mid priced MC's really rather pointless considering there are some cracking MM's available?

 

[lazycat]

Are mid priced MC's really rather pointless considering there are some cracking MM's available?

I think you've answered your own question. You have a great arm and p/stage, you'd expect them to work well with the MC.

Go with what you enjoy the most. I dipped my toe into mid-priced MC's after many years and I wasn't impressed. Very happy with my 2M Black.

 

[Nothingface]

A great arm will show you the quality of the cartridge. A great phono stage will show you what they're both doing!
You don't want a bottleneck so a phono stage above the capabilities of the arm & cart is important.

You have a competent phono stage which could be replaced by the 907 which should be more revealing of the 309 & OC9.

What is your turntable?

 

[rockmeister]

All three have to match. Since you already own a good arm and phono stage, then first find something to match the arm mechanically ( The SME 309 has an effective mass of 9.5 g I think and is therefore likely to compatible with cartridges weighing between 5g with a compliance between 15 and 25, and 15g, then a compliance 10 to 20...so pretty forgiving).
Once you've found a range, then check compatability with your phonostage in terms of voltage and impedance. The Trilogy is very adjustable so finding a close match shouldn't be hard.
MM's are far easier to match, being generally made to standard phonostage wise. They do ofc vary in weight and compliance. My own view is that around £400 + MC's take over as the 'better' cartridges.

If I remember right, AT measure their compliance at 100Hz. This simply means that you take thier published figure and multiply by about 1.5 to meet the standard 10hz measurement. This makes the AT a 7'6 g cartridge with a compliance around 30Hz, which is outside what the SME is really compatible with and may be your problem.

I'd personally look at Hana cartridges which suit the SME/ Trilogy ideally in my view.

 

[Nothingface]

All three have to match. Since you already own a good arm and phono stage, then first find something to match the arm mechanically ( The SME 309 has an effective mass of 9.5 g I think and is therefore likely to compatible with cartridges weighing between 5g with a compliance between 15 and 25, and 15g, then a compliance 10 to 20...so pretty forgiving).
Once you've found a range, then check compatability with your phonostage in terms of voltage and impedance. The Trilogy is very adjustable so finding a close match shouldn't be hard.
MM's are far easier to match, being generally made to standard phonostage wise. They do ofc vary in weight and compliance. My own view is that around £400 + MC's take over as the 'better' cartridges.

If I remember right, AT measure their compliance at 100Hz. This simply means that you take thier published figure and multiply by about 1.5 to meet the standard 10hz measurement. This makes the AT a 7'6 g cartridge with a compliance around 30Hz, which is outside what the SME is really compatible with and may be your problem.

I'd personally look at Hana cartridges which suit the SME/ Trilogy ideally in my view.

Ignore me, this is more informative & helpful...!

 

[Amber Audio]

Which is more important when choosing a new cartridge, buy to suit the arm or phono stage, or somewhere to suit both?

Currently have SME 309 with Audio Technica OC9 XML with Trilogy 906 phono stage, I can't say the AT as ever really set my vinyl world on fire, and much prefer my AT440 MBL.

Are mid priced MC's really rather pointless considering there are some cracking MM's available?

What’s your budget? With that 309/906 combo I’d be aiming at DV20XL / XX2Mk2 territory or Hana SL if you want a smoother/safer sound, around the £1K price point. Cadenza Bronze is a superb cart but pricey these days.

FWIW I went from the 906 to 907 and was unimpressed at the bang per buck, much smaller improvement than I’d hoped for.

I‘m a MC guy rather than MM - mid price fave by a long way is the AT33PTG/II, absolutely fab sounding cart, using one on my 1200GR.

 

[Motortown review]

What’s your budget? With that 309/906 combo I’d be aiming at DV20XL / XX2Mk2 territory or Hana SL if you want a smoother/safer sound, around the £1K price point. Cadenza Bronze is a superb cart but pricey these days.

FWIW I went from the 906 to 907 and was unimpressed at the bang per buck, much smaller improvement than I’d hoped for.

I‘m a MC guy rather than MM - mid price fave by a long way is the AT33PTG/II, absolutely fab sounding cart, using one on my 1200GR.

I've had a DV20XL on an Ittok, can't say it rocked my boat. Maybe I'm too fussy. I am looking at the Hana SL or get an MM, say Nagoaka MP500/300 but they seems to be in short supply at the moment. I've heard mixed reviews of the Hana, too smooth, too bright?

 

[Amber Audio]

I've had a DV20XL on an Ittok, can't say it rocked my boat. Maybe I'm too fussy. I am looking at the Hana SL or get an MM, say Nagoaka MP500/300 but they seems to be in short supply at the moment. I've heard mixed reviews of the Hana, too smooth, too bright?

It’s all very system/room and personal taste dependent, plus as you age the old hearing is bound to change. Trouble is getting head to head or home loans of carts is very difficult these days so forum opinion is sought, it’s just that, someones opinion.

I personally didn’t rate the Hana carts when I tried them in my systems, many other folk rate the range very highly, can’t say I’ve seen them called bright though, that’s the usual comment about AT and often the OC9. I have always loved DV carts and far prefered my XX2Mk2 to the Hana SL on a PU7, so maybe you’d really like Hana. Can’t offer anything about the Nags - when it comes to a few £hundred I’ve always gone with MC.

 

[Speedracer]

I would say that matching a new cartridge to your arm is the most important bit. At the level you are at currently your phono stage should be configurable to a range of cartridges already, so you should be looking at carts that work well on your SME 309, as it is a very popular arm there should be lots to read online about what other users have chosen.
I listened to a very good system at the weekend with expensive gear (10k speakers), yet with a modest valve phono stage worth around £500/600 used, & it worked brilliantly. The dip switches allowed it to be configured for almost a perfect match with the cartridge & it sounded superb & was certainly not the weak link in the chain.

 

[rabski]

Which is more important when choosing a new cartridge, buy to suit the arm or phono stage, or somewhere to suit both?

Currently have SME 309 with Audio Technica OC9 XML with Trilogy 906 phono stage, I can't say the AT as ever really set my vinyl world on fire, and much prefer my AT440 MBL.

Are mid priced MC's really rather pointless considering there are some cracking MM's available?

Answer to the question? Possibly. I find you need to break the piggy bank a bit to really get the advantages, but I'm afraid I still prefer the vast majority of middle-range MC carts to the high-end MMs. It's a question of taste more than anything. A seriously good MM will give you the 'in yer face' slam and bling, whereas MC are a lot delicate and subtle. That's an overstatement, but I still think true to a degree.

With regard to matching, it needs to be everything. If the mechanical match with the tonearm is wrong, it'll never sound right. If the electrical match with the phono stage is wrong, it won't work properly either.

If you're buying new, then with a £500 budget, I'd stick with MMs. The fun with MCs to my ears doesn't start until you get to the naughty side of a grand, or close to it. There are, of course, sometimes some cracking bargains in the used market, though with cartridges you absolutely have to be able to trust the seller.

 

[Motortown review]

Plenty of great replies, thanks. Very difficult to dem a cartridge, last time was at cymbiosis, using Naim Aro for each cartridge, so not ideal either.

 

[Motortown review]

All three have to match. Since you already own a good arm and phono stage, then first find something to match the arm mechanically ( The SME 309 has an effective mass of 9.5 g I think and is therefore likely to compatible with cartridges weighing between 5g with a compliance between 15 and 25, and 15g, then a compliance 10 to 20...so pretty forgiving).
Once you've found a range, then check compatability with your phonostage in terms of voltage and impedance. The Trilogy is very adjustable so finding a close match shouldn't be hard.
MM's are far easier to match, being generally made to standard phonostage wise. They do ofc vary in weight and compliance. My own view is that around £400 + MC's take over as the 'better' cartridges.

If I remember right, AT measure their compliance at 100Hz. This simply means that you take thier published figure and multiply by about 1.5 to meet the standard 10hz measurement. This makes the AT a 7'6 g cartridge with a compliance around 30Hz, which is outside what the SME is really compatible with and may be your problem.

I'd personally look at Hana cartridges which suit the SME/ Trilogy ideally in my view.

The Hana SL I'm looking at is 5g weight, the 309 cartridge weight range is 6-17g so maybe not suitable as it wouldn't balance out?

 

[Rockchild]

The Hana SL I'm looking at is 5g weight, the 309 cartridge weight range is 6-17g so maybe not suitable as it wouldn't balance out?

You can get additional weights for the SME counterweight or their headshell mass weight. That would sort it.

 

[lazycat]

The Hana SL I'm looking at is 5g weight, the 309 cartridge weight range is 6-17g so maybe not suitable as it wouldn't balance out?

How about these to add weight..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233534683427?hash=item365fc07923:g:-S0AAOSwvGxedfVq

 

[Amber Audio]

The Hana SL I'm looking at is 5g weight, the 309 cartridge weight range is 6-17g so maybe not suitable as it wouldn't balance out?

SME 309 Eff Mass 9.5g. Hana SL 5g. Hana Compliance 16 as per their spec sheet. Gives Green Zone 10Hz according to VE Calc so looks perfectly fine.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...R_ML_SL_EL+Specification_Comparison_Chart.pdf
https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=9.5&submit=Submit

​

 

[rockmeister]

SME 309 Eff Mass 9.5g. Hana SL 5g. Hana Compliance 16 as per their spec sheet. Gives Green Zone 10Hz according to VE Calc so looks perfectly fine.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...R_ML_SL_EL+Specification_Comparison_Chart.pdf
https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=9.5&submit=Submit

​

I think he means that 5g cartridges will not physically balance within the arm's counterweight range. It's too light. The counterweight willnot screw far enough forwards?

 

[mac72]

Heavier nut like knurled thumb nut would be one of the solutions , something like this :
https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.u...7MYvp67eOH3Wd5-seYELduDCeGuvqHhhoC4wAQAvD_BwE
plenty of material options ie: ss steel, aluminum, brass etc...

 

[Amber Audio]

I think he means that 5g cartridges will not physically balance within the arm's counterweight range. It's too light. The counterweight willnot screw far enough forwards?

Bit of blu tack on the headshell. Heavier bolts. Chunkier finger lift. Metal shim.

The 12” 309 handles 5g and there used to be a heavy kit for 309/310 but SME seem to have pulled all info now they no longer sell the arms, might be worth emailing them. I think this was the part number/description:

3883/AHW Balance Weight (Heavy) S300 Accessory​