Linn Owners

New listning room... hopefully

LinnJim

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Hello
With a bit of luck I should be moving house soon and I will have a dedicated listening room for the first time.
My only concern is that it is an attic conversion and thus has a vaulted ceiling.
I have no experience with attic acoustics and would love some input from anyone that knows anything.

Thanks
 

entdgc

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I am no sound engineer. An attic conversion would not be my first choice of listening room - but I would rather have a dedicated room than my current multi purpose lounge. There are several people on here with very expensive systems who make them work in attics. I think you will have to be careful as the floor will no doubt be wooden and suspended so susceptible to resonance - perhaps consider special feet for your speakers. If the roof is sloping then that would worry me - but I don't know why! There is some logic in saying it would actually be better as there are less parallel surfaces to enhance reflections...
I'll shut up and leave the stage to someone who actually knows what they are talking about ...
 

Chris 1970

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Hello!

Like @entdgc I'm definitely not a sound engineer :)


But I'm in your situation!
To have a "listening room" is a chance…

What is your system at the time?
 

Chris 1970

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Like said previously:
– the floor could be suspended wood, so susceptible to resonance
– the roof is sloping, so what about reflections…

I have the speakers under one roof slope.
@Paulssurround said that speakers in the other way could be easier to manage, with a wall behind I suppose (a nice listening experience with one of his friends system).
I can talk only about my experience…

1) The floor:
If your house is recent, it could also be wood or carpet on concrete.
On an old light suspended wood, the best I get for the moment is to use one 60x60cm Didond* 3 mm plate under each speaker.
*polyethylene surrounded by two aluminum plates (rigid support used for photo print)
I have listened with and without, and it's a lot better with:
– it allows the weight to be well distributed on 7 or 8 floorboards,
– it isolate the most part of the vibrations

2) The roof slope:
If your speakers have deep bass, I had to put them more inside the room (a lot of space behind) to calm down. I did 10 cm more last month for the best.

3) the roof height:
4.5 meters at the top at home.
In the house before, it was not under the roof and with 2.5 meters.
The space above 2.5 meters seems to help with reflections.

4) the windows:
At home, not a lot of windows near the speakers, that should help.
Thick curtains in front of the vertical window.
 
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akamatsu

Michael
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Hopefully, everything will go as planned and you will get your dedicated listening room. :)

Perhaps a bit of information about the room would be helpful. Usually, these types of rooms are longer along the axis of the roof line. Is this the case? If so, would you be able to place the speakers at one of the end walls which I'm picturing as vertical?

There is some logic in saying it would actually be better as there are less parallel surfaces to enhance reflections...
Room modes should be reduced due to lack of parallel walls. This is normally a good thing. However, Space Optimisation handles this very well. The problem will come when implementing SO as compromises to the model will have to be made.

What is your system at the time?
This would be helpful. Context is always everything.

In the meantime, I would recommend not trying to solve problems that have yet to be identified. Let's focus on the room dimensions, and speaker placement.
 
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LinnJim

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Jan 11, 2019
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Thanks for the replies.
My system is an Akurate DSM/2, 1x 4200 with 212s passive and an optional BK electric sub.
I also have a Majik LP12 with an Akurate Radikal.
For isolation under the speakers I'm using some lovely pieces of lakedistrict slate that get her approval but happy to use something more "audio grade".
The speakers would have to go under a slanted roof to make the room viable as it's not a large space.
The main benefit for me of using this room is it would keep my system out of the way of a very inquisitive, ridiculously destructive, turntable obsessed 9 month old that will soon be releasing terror on the world when he figures out how to crawl.
 

HansBertil

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@LinnJim
Nice with a dedicated listening room. I have no experience from vaulted ceilings but I’ve seen some listening rooms with such ceilings here on the forum with speakers both firing along and across the ceiling. The owners haven’t commented on any specific issues with the geometry, even if asked. As always experimentation with speaker positions is recommended.
 

Paulssurround

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I am no sound engineer. An attic conversion would not be my first choice of listening room - but I would rather have a dedicated room than my current multi purpose lounge. There are several people on here with very expensive systems who make them work in attics. I think you will have to be careful as the floor will no doubt be wooden and suspended so susceptible to resonance - perhaps consider special feet for your speakers. If the roof is sloping then that would worry me - but I don't know why! There is some logic in saying it would actually be better as there are less parallel surfaces to enhance reflections...
I'll shut up and leave the stage to someone who actually knows what they are talking about ...
Yes, I agree with your suggestions.

I am not a sound engineer but I agree that an attic conversion does pose challenges. That said, the best Linn system I have ever heard was in an attic, but the speakers firing down the length of the room, with the slopes of the ceiling equidistant from each Komri.

The record album racks, room alcoves and bookcases provided excellent diffusion, and the overall room shape seemed to accommodate the potential low frequencies with no boominess. It is an excellent example of a room with superb room acoustics.
 
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Paulssurround

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Like said previously:
– the floor could be suspended wood, so susceptible to resonance
– the roof is sloping, so what about reflections…

I have the speakers under one roof slope.
@Paulssurround said that speakers in the other way could be easier to manage, with a wall behind I suppose (a nice listening experience with one of his friends system).
I can talk only about my experience…

1) The floor:
If your house is recent, it could also be wood or carpet on concrete.
On an old light suspended wood, the best I get for the moment is to use one 60x60cm Didond* 3 mm plate under each speaker.
*polyethylene surrounded by two aluminum plates (rigid support used for photo print)
I have listened with and without, and it's a lot better with:
– it allows the weight to be well distributed on 7 or 8 floorboards,
– it isolate the most part of the vibrations

2) The roof slope:
If your speakers have deep bass, I had to put them more inside the room (a lot of space behind) to calm down. I did 10 cm more last month for the best.

3) the roof height:
4.5 meters at the top at home.
In the house before, it was not under the roof and with 2.5 meters.
The space above 2.5 meters seems to help with reflections.

4) the windows:
At home, not a lot of windows near the speakers, that should help.
Thick curtains in front of the vertical window.
Hi Chris,

Thank you for our recent video chat, and video tour of your Linn HiFi system. It was a great pleasure to speak with you and find out about your fascinating world.

Although your room provides some room acoustic challenges, I believe that it is solvable. With the help of someone familiar with knowledge of room acoustic treatment and possible room acoustic panels, I suspect you will find new dimensions in sound quality from the amazing system you already have.

It sounds like you have made great progress already and on your way of discovery to getting even more out of from your Linn system.
 
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Imseti

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Nightmare! The acoustic effects of this type of room are enormous and you run the serious risk of your system sounding absolutely awful.

I spent a lot of time many years ago experimenting with acoustic treatments in my lounge with professional sound studio panels covering the whole ceiling to stop huge reflections and echo (the ceiling is concrete), to dampen down the room and make it far less 'lively'.

Your problem is the complexity of your attic - wooden built isn't a problem in itself EXCEPT the floor which will cause a few problems in SQ.

You need to reduce reflections as much as possible or your system will sound like an inferior Hi-Fi.
 
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akamatsu

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I spent a lot of time many years ago experimenting with acoustic treatments in my lounge with professional sound studio panels covering the whole ceiling to stop huge reflections and echo (the ceiling is concrete), to dampen down the room and make it far less 'lively'.
Do you think this was due to the geometry of the room being an attic with sloped ceiling, or was it due to the ceiling being made of concrete? Concrete vertical walls will induce some weird echos.
 
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Imseti

Menmaatre Seti I
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Do you think this was due to the geometry of the room being an attic with sloped ceiling, or was it due to the ceiling being made of concrete? Concrete vertical walls will induce some weird echos.
Well as you say the geometry of the room is important, especially the immediate reflections near both speakers. They have to be away from any hard surface either side.

I have researched and tested acoustics for decades in various houses with my Linn equipment.

Yes, you're correct, vertical concrete walls or ceiling will DESTROY the quality of the sound. Dampening and then complete readjustment of the treble and bass crossovers are needed to a serious degree after room treatment.

I've been at a very old dealer's demo room years ago where I couldn't hear any difference at all between a CD-12 and a Genki or Ikemi. People just down realise how massively important acoustic treatment and characteristics of the room are to SQ. Quite amazing.

This is why it's so important to have a very excellent dealer who home-dems absolutely everything in your own acoustics and system. Sadly my dealership retired some years ago now.
 

akamatsu

Michael
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Point Roberts, WA, USA (Vancouver)
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Well as you say the geometry of the room is important, especially the immediate reflections near both speakers. They have to be away from any hard surface either side.

I have researched and tested acoustics for decades in various houses with my Linn equipment.

Yes, you're correct, vertical concrete walls or ceiling will DESTROY the quality of the sound. Dampening and then complete readjustment of the treble and bass crossovers are needed to a serious degree after room treatment.

I've been at a very old dealer's demo room years ago where I couldn't hear any difference at all between a CD-12 and a Genki or Ikemi. People just down realise how massively important acoustic treatment and characteristics of the room are to SQ. Quite amazing.

This is why it's so important to have a very excellent dealer who home-dems absolutely everything in your own acoustics and system. Sadly my dealership retired some years ago now.
I'm thinking the OP will have difficulty installing absorbing materials (drapes, curtains) due to limited vertical walls. So some sort of panels may be needed to tame the RT60. To me, this is the first step; clap your hands, listen, then start taming.
 

LinnJim

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Jan 11, 2019
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The house was built in 2007 and one if the side walls will be a gable wall, most likely breeze block.
The rest of the walls are partitions and I am uncertain about the ceiling but I don't think it to be concrete.
The room also has one (probably rear) wall longer than the other due to a large alcove, leading into an office room.
It's definitely not going to be straightforward but it's good to know that I should be able to achieve some success even if it may involve hard work and treatment etc..
Anything beats the room I'm in now anyway.
 
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Chris 1970

Love colors in music
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Christophe
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The house was built in 2007 and one if the side walls will be a gable wall, most likely breeze block.
The rest of the walls are partitions and I am uncertain about the ceiling but I don't think it to be concrete.
The room also has one (probably rear) wall longer than the other due to a large alcove, leading into an office room.
It's definitely not going to be straightforward but it's good to know that I should be able to achieve some success even if it may involve hard work and treatment etc..
Anything beats the room I'm in now anyway.

Would say that the more the roof is high under the listening position and in between, the more it is a nice thing. And like @akamatsu said, no concrete wall is better.
 

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