New speakers ?

wickfut

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I have recently moved into a flat with a smaller living room (4x5x3m) with wooden sprung floors and my hifi dooesnt seem to like the room.

I have TDL studio 0.75m / Esound CD-E5 / Dussun V8i and the bass is just silly. Ive pulled the speakers out so far that if they come into the room any further they will be in the centre. Ive tried moving things about to cure standing waves, different cables between the pre/power sections of the amp and trying to bung up the ports on the speaker to no avail.

I guess 250 watts per channel going through transmission line speakers is too much so I tend to have to lower the volume down so its barely audible to control the bass on alot of my cd's.

Now I like these speakers alot , they image well , they are very detailed and they are (were) very fast sounding so Im looking to replace them with something with a similar sound but more neighbour/police friendly.

ive heard good things about the Usher S520s as a cheap bargain but cannot demo them locally.

Any ideas on what to aim for up to say £600 ?

 

Strider

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I used to have a pair of TDL Studio 1 M's, they had huge bass extension and used to give my neighbors a heart attack with Portishead and the like!

I put mine on a couple of paving slabs painted black, my TDL's had the small metal spiked plinths. This improved the bass response incredibly and stopped the transmission of bass through the floor into my neighbours house. It also brings the tweeter up to ear height also improving the slightly laid back presence region.

I still miss my TDL's and I replaced them with a pair of B&W 704's, while the B&W's lack the sheer extension the are better in every direction especially in slam, detail and sound staging.

Try some small paving slabs or granite chopping boards from Argos, the chopping boards are 400x300 mm and about 20mm thick, they are also wife friendly!

Good luck!

 

wickfut

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yeah I have those plinths on mine too , I have tried the slabs under speakers before in the past and found it just removed the extension while giving it an upper bass honky sound and I didnt like it much.

Not sure if another pair of floor standers is a good idea to be honest. I will try out the B&W standmounters though.

Are Dali Ikon 2 worth looking at ?

 

Strider

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The Dali's are nice but need careful matching, they also like a bit of space behind them to avoid sounding flat.

It might still be worth trying out the slabs/boards as now thew floors have changed, also try experimenting with positioning to reduce the upper bass honkiness. I found my TDL's were very responsive to speaker cable changes, at the time QED SA provided a good solution but with my B&W's the QED SA was just plain nasty. Try some solid core or even QED's new SA 'XT' cable. It retails for around 5.50 permetre.

Also have you bi-wired the TDL's? I had mine BI-amped with an Arcam Alpha 8 integrated and 8 Power, the control was ten times better.

A mate has just bought a pair of Monitor Audio RS1's and Atacama Nexus speaker stands. I am truly gobsmacked at how good these speakers sound, deep bass, great mid and sweet detailed top end. The build quality is second to none and they are not fussy about placement.

 

Jim

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Your system is similar to mine ie Eastsound and large Shengya amp.I have standmounts though. Sounds to me you are getting a huge bass hump that is killing the music. Rather than spend money on new speakers, if you like the ones you have, why not try the Behringer DEQ2496. Its a room correction device and works very well for me. Jandl100 has recently put one in his system which looks a very good one and he is very happy. Jim.

 

JANDL100

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Keep the speakers and spend £250 on a Behringer DEQ2496 + microphone to digitally equalise the system to a flat frequency response.

It will solve your problems.

See this thread HERE to get you started.
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(click on the word HERE)

 

uzzy

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wickfut wrote:

I have recently moved into a flat with a smaller living room (4x5x3m) with wooden sprung floors and my hifi dooesnt seem to like the room. I have TDL studio 0.75m / Esound CD-E5 / Dussun V8i and the bass is just silly. Ive pulled the speakers out so far that if they come into the room any further they will be in the centre. Ive tried moving things about to cure standing waves, different cables between the pre/power sections of the amp and trying to bung up the ports on the speaker to no avail.

I guess 250 watts per channel going through transmission line speakers is too much so I tend to have to lower the volume down so its barely audible to control the bass on alot of my cd's.

Now I like these speakers alot , they image well , they are very detailed and they are (were) very fast sounding so Im looking to replace them with something with a similar sound but more neighbour/police friendly.

ive heard good things about the Usher S520s as a cheap bargain but cannot demo them locally.

Any ideas on what to aim for up to say £600 ?
The problem with transmission lines is the room interaction. My PRO 9TLS used to rattle the doors and the windows on certain frequencies where the line would excite resonances in the room.

You could try putting extra stuffing in the ports to reduce the output. Or the firstquick try would be to use gaffa tape to stick some plywood over them and see how it sounds as a sealed enclosure?

It should be possible to tame the bass with experimentation as above and I would try all those things before considering changing them.

 

wickfut

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sorry JANDL100, I am not throwing anything behringer into my hifi system. I used to write music as a hobby and had a small studio (see link in profile). My experiences with that make arent good. (compressors, mixers, active monitors , EQ's, mics etc). Try listening to the earlier tracks which used behringer equipment compared to the latest tracks which used more upmarket gear to see my point.

Even with correct and flat EQ these speakers would be too much for where I am now , I dont wish to be a noise nuisense for anyone and so I believe that bass that rolls off at 45-55hz instead of 20-30hz will be a good thing.

Also the price difference on the DEQ + mic + 2 x quality digi cables + the sale of my speakers would more than pay for a pair of speakers that should fit the bill instead of some "wonder if" box might do it.

 

uzzy

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Well block the ports and make it a sealed enclosure. You have enough power not to worry about increased inefficiency and will reduce the bass output considerably.

 

wickfut

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uzzy wrote:

Well block the ports and make it a sealed enclosure. You have enough power not to worry about increased inefficiency and will reduce the bass output considerably.
its not quite as simple as that.

the ports are multiple 2"x2" small squares on the bottom front of the speakers which have glued thick foam inserted into them.

Ripping out the foam isnt on my to do list as replacing it could cause a problem when I try and sell them.

I have tried placing pillows over the top of the ports to see if it makes any difference but it didnt.

The TDL speakers dont just generate bass by using the transmission line. They do it by lowering the volume of the midrange/trebble down inline with cones natural lowest range before roll off. This is why the efficiancy is very low and why most amps cry when running them.

It is the only speaker I have heard that still makes deep bass when you remove the cone from the actual enclosure.

On another note...

What I find funny is that on another forum when I had my old gear (all arcam alpha 8 system) when I wanted a new amp and cd they told me to upgrade the speakers first. Now Im on this forum and I want to change the speakers Im being told something else.

cheers for the ideas so far.
biggrin.png


 

JANDL100

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wickfut wrote:

sorry JANDL100, I am not throwing anything behringer into my hifi system.
Fair enough, your call- but IMHO, used in pure-digital mode, the Behringer is quite transparent - as several folks who have high end gear on this forum will testify, myself included.

... and if you want a roll-off below 45Hz or whatever, you can just dial it in!The perfect solution.

Anyway .... best of luck sortin' your problem. I'll shut up now
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JamPal

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wickfut wrote:

uzzy wrote:
Well block the ports and make it a sealed enclosure. You have enough power not to worry about increased inefficiency and will reduce the bass output considerably.
its not quite as simple as that.

the ports are multiple 2"x2" small squares on the bottom front of the speakers which have glued thick foam inserted into them.

Ripping out the foam isnt on my to do list as replacing it could cause a problem when I try and sell them.

I have tried placing pillows over the top of the ports to see if it makes any difference but it didnt.

The TDL speakers dont just generate bass by using the transmission line. They do it by lowering the volume of the midrange/trebble down inline with cones natural lowest range before roll off. This is why the efficiancy is very low and why most amps cry when running them.

It is the only speaker I have heard that still makes deep bass when you remove the cone from the actual enclosure.

On another note...

What I find funny is that on another forum when I had my old gear (all arcam alpha 8 system) when I wanted a new amp and cd they told me to upgrade the speakers first. Now Im on this forum and I want to change the speakers Im being told something else.

cheers for the ideas so far.
biggrin.png
Well, FWIW. I thnk you should change your speakers first:D

Plenty to chose from. If it were my money - £600.00 will buy a second hand pair of Neat Elite SE's. They will blow your socks off. The bass is there still, but not over powering or neighbour annoying. The mids and treble are to die for, seriously, I don't think I have ever heard a bad review here for the Neat Mystique II/Elites/Elite SE's. Having owned the first two myself they are really worth a listen.

BTW - graphic equalizer... nahh.
glum.gif.19305e5ca189352e84c85f8ec971e437.gif
I would be forever tweaking the bloody thing. I don;t think I would be able to relax.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif.ba76878d555418d609a6f9e8389072ea.gif


 

Hawk

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HiFiWigWam wrote:

wickfut wrote:
uzzy wrote:
Well block the ports and make it a sealed enclosure. You have enough power not to worry about increased inefficiency and will reduce the bass output considerably.
its not quite as simple as that.

the ports are multiple 2"x2" small squares on the bottom front of the speakers which have glued thick foam inserted into them.

Ripping out the foam isnt on my to do list as replacing it could cause a problem when I try and sell them.

I have tried placing pillows over the top of the ports to see if it makes any difference but it didnt.

The TDL speakers dont just generate bass by using the transmission line. They do it by lowering the volume of the midrange/trebble down inline with cones natural lowest range before roll off. This is why the efficiancy is very low and why most amps cry when running them.

It is the only speaker I have heard that still makes deep bass when you remove the cone from the actual enclosure.

On another note...

What I find funny is that on another forum when I had my old gear (all arcam alpha 8 system) when I wanted a new amp and cd they told me to upgrade the speakers first. Now Im on this forum and I want to change the speakers Im being told something else.

cheers for the ideas so far.
biggrin.png
Well, FWIW. I thnk you should change your speakers first:D

Plenty to chose from. If it were my money - £600.00 will buy a second hand pair of Neat Elite SE's. They will blow your socks off. The bass is there still, but not over powering or neighbour annoying. The mids and treble are to die for, seriously, I don't think I have ever heard a bad review here for the Neat Mystique II/Elites/Elite SE's. Having owned the first two myself they are really worth a listen.

BTW - graphic equalizer... nahh.
glum.gif.19305e5ca189352e84c85f8ec971e437.gif
I would be forever tweaking the bloody thing. I don;t think I would be able to relax.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif.ba76878d555418d609a6f9e8389072ea.gif
goodpost.gif.00822561e807cf35c79b3503f2e609d0.gif


Stick to your guns and sort the speakers first. The Neats would be a good place to start..

 

wickfut

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dont get me wrong Jandl100 as I'm sure it is an interesting product and I would love to test it out to see if it does work as you say.

I do use more than 1 source though. I have my turntable and my music PC also. This would mean using the analogue ins and outs of the unit inbetween the pre/power sections of my amp which would make a sacrifice of quality which is more than I am willing to make.

My room isnt unlistenably bad for music , It just raises bass a few db more than I am used to and I know this will go to the other flats surrounding me.

So the choice for new speakers is a choice on being neighbour friendly as if I was the only one in the building I could live with the bass being this pronounced.

 

wickfut

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HiFiWigWam

Plenty to chose from. If it were my money - £600.00 will buy a second hand pair of Neat Elite SE's. They will blow your socks off. The bass is there still, but not over powering or neighbour annoying. The mids and treble are to die for, seriously, I don't think I have ever heard a bad review here for the Neat Mystique II/Elites/Elite SE's. Having owned the first two myself they are really worth a listen.

BTW - graphic equalizer... nahh.
glum.gif.19305e5ca189352e84c85f8ec971e437.gif
I would be forever tweaking the bloody thing. I don;t think I would be able to relax.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif.ba76878d555418d609a6f9e8389072ea.gif
yeah thanks for that , not heard of the Elites before , circular ribbon tweaters too eh
smile.png


 

ob1

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I have heard 4 pairs of neats and all of them are superb.

Mystique 2 = Very musical, fast bass (if not the deepest) and easy to position. Very nice with progressive rock. 2nd hand around £400 - £500

Elites SE = As musical as Mystique 2 with a touch more bass. Great soundstage and will gel in with most electronics. 2nd hand around £650 - £700

Motive 1 = amazing treble, so sweet and wide 3d wall of sound. System matching needed to make the most of them but if you get it right, they are a great buy. 2nd hand = £750 +

MFS = I got a pair
tongue.png


 

SSM

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HiFiWigWam wrote:

Well, FWIW. I thnk you should change your speakers first:DPlenty to chose from. If it were my money - £600.00 will buy a second hand pair of Neat Elite SE's. They will blow your socks off. The bass is there still, but not over powering or neighbour annoying. The mids and treble are to die for, seriously, I don't think I have ever heard a bad review here for the Neat Mystique II/Elites/Elite SE's. Having owned the first two myself they are really worth a listen.

BTW - graphic equalizer... nahh.
glum.gif.19305e5ca189352e84c85f8ec971e437.gif
I would be forever tweaking the bloody thing. I don;t think I would be able to relax.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif.ba76878d555418d609a6f9e8389072ea.gif
Darn.
71_71.gif.90e48c720ca56a2d2fa0532dd3380cc7.gif
Neat Acoustics, forgot all about this one. They didn't have a distributorship in my region when I shopped for speakers last Xmas. But now that you've mentioned them, I checked and sh*t! They have just planted their flag here!
wub.png
I would have liked to check out the Motive 3s.
sad.png


And look at the sspanking new Momentum 3i standmount

webMomentum3iFront_000.JPG
understated elegance
500000033.gif.92511e2005a900cfb9bb836a01712b3a.gif
:love:
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If they sound as nice as they look, it could be magic. Xmas'07 demo date jotted in my diary.
smile.png


SS

 

ob1

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SSM wrote:

Darn.
71_71.gif.90e48c720ca56a2d2fa0532dd3380cc7.gif
Neat Acoustics, forgot all about this one. They didn't have a distributorship in my region
No dealers in Norfolk stock them either! but 450 miles round trip to Darlintonwas a nice day out
wink.png


 

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