Noisy neighbours

[brystonian]

In this case, me. :doh:

I'd like to be able to listen to my hi-fi at moderate volumes during the day and have the TV on late at night. Unfortunately my neighbours window is next to mine and this time of year, we both have them open.

They're a really nice old couple and the last thing I want to do is piss them off. As they're very tolerant of my music and insomniac TV watching.

So, I'm trying to devise a way of getting cooling air into my room without letting potentially annoying sound out. I've come up with this fairly half arsed contraption. Comprised of plywood, acoustic foam and a 140mm 12v DC fan or 2. That essentially acts like a transmission tunnel. The idea being that I'd secure it with velcro tape to my open top casement window. The fan should be capable of moving 50CFM on its 'very low noise' setting. I'd simple power it with a 12v DC wall wart PSU, as the fan draws very little current.

I stuck this in the DIY section in the hope that someone who knows a lot more about acoustics and the transmission of sound than me will be able to tell me if it is:

A. Something that will work effectively

B. A really stoopid idea that has no chance of working or

C. Potentially effective with some alterations.

I don't have my music or TV obnoxiously loud. The neighbours have never complained about the noise before it got hot enough for both of us to have our windows open.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated, thanks.

Another option would be to have a Extractor vent cut in the wall, which I could then box in with a bigger acoustic foam lined labyrinth and use a bigger, slower fan. Keeping the window shut and cooling the room that way.

Mods sorry if this is the wrong section for this, it seemed like the most appropriate one.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Angle the opening away from the neighbours.

 

[Hornucopia]

How funny! We're the 'nice old couple' in our row/cul-de-sac, but I'm the noisy one!

Nice idea; hope it works out.

 

[Camverton]

Good for you mate for thinking about others rather than just noise polluting.

I'm not sure to what degree your ideas will work. My own approach FWIW is to try and keep the place as cool as possible during the day by having a breeze blowing through and drawing curtains to keep the sun from heating up rooms. Then I shut all the doors and windows to keep my sound in and the rest if the world out. Still gets a bit warm when I'm using the valve amp though.

 

[Camverton]

And of course listen to your music in the nude to keep cool, could be a problem watching films though - dependant on your chose genre ;-)

 

[mj446]

How funny! We're the 'nice old couple' in our row/cul-de-sac, but I'm the noisy one!

Sounds like myself and SWMBO, OP, have you thought about using a fan in the room to move the air better?

 

[brystonian]

Angle the opening away from the neighbours.

Thanks, didn't think of that. I'll direct the inlet away from them.

How funny! We're the 'nice old couple' in our row/cul-de-sac, but I'm the noisy one! Nice idea; hope it works out.

Thanks! I guess that there isn't any correlation between age and noise output.

Good for you mate for thinking about others rather than just noise polluting. I'm not sure to what degree your ideas will work. My own approach FWIW is to try and keep the place as cool as possible during the day by having a breeze blowing through and drawing curtains to keep the sun from heating up rooms. Then I shut all the doors and windows to keep my sound in and the rest if the world out. Still gets a bit warm when I'm using the valve amp though.

Thanks. I'll give that a go but it could be a case of too many electronics in too smaller room. All SS but they can still put out some heat!

And of course listen to your music in the nude to keep cool, could be a problem watching films though - dependant on your chose genre ;-)

I tend to sit around in my pants this time of year.

OP, have you thought about using a fan in the room to move the air better?

Good idea! Funnily enough my plastic fantastic 16" fan turned up today. £18 on eBay. Definitely seems to help. I can shut the windows, crank up the fan and have the tunes on for a hour or so before it becomes too hot to handle.

 

[Valvebloke]

Probably impractical, but I'll mention it just in case. Can you set up a fan-in-a-pipe* to suck the hot air away from your electronics and blow it out of the room, either out though the window (might let noise out though) or through your internal doorway into whichever room is next door ? When I was still a professional scientist/engineer we built a large version of this where we put all our control and diagnostic equipment, 20+ items, in overhead racks with glass doors and just sucked the hot air from it out through the roof. It made a huge difference to the lab's temperature stability, which is what we cared about. It's a basic physical principle that it's easier to shift heat when it's still concentrated in a small volume of hot air than when it's diffused out into a much larger volume of warm air.

All that said, you'll still have to cope with the best part of a hundred watts of heat that a sedentary human being generates plus whatever you have in the way of lighting.

Looking at your original scheme you've built something which will get air into your room but is there a way for it to get out again ? If not then the pressure in the room will rise a little and the airflow through the fan will stall, so you'll be back to square one. Ideally you'd like to bring cooler air in at a low point in your room and let hot air out higher up somewhere. This way the chimney effect of hot air rising helps the airflow rather than fighting it. I still worry that some sound will get out through whatever you build though . But like the others I applaud you for trying. It's a very grown-up good-neighbourly thing to do :^ .

VB

*DIY shops sometimes sell complete kits for ventilating bathrooms.

 

[Mr BA]

In a previous life I was involved in designing several acoustic trickle ventilators. These are larger versions than the one typically installed in domestic houses.The target market was high class apartments, schools, etc. where they want to allow fresh air into the rooms, but keep external noise to a minimum.

The problem that you have is as soon as you have an opening, the noise will escape. Your idea of having a labyrinth is good, but the larger the open area, the greater the amount of noise will travel through it.

For a unit with a labyrinth pass and an opening of 47 x 1500mm, which was acoustically lined. Typical frequency reductions are 125hz 6dB, 250 7dB, 500 - 8dB, 1k - 15dB, 2k - 30dB, 4k - 30dB, 8k - 20dB. The thickness of your foam naturally limits low frequency attenuation. Not great reductions to keep the neighbours happy I'm afraid. :nerves:

To cool the room, ideally you need to take the hot air out at high level and introduce fresh air at low level. The Victorians understood this very well with sash windows - have them open top & bottom and a natural circulation will be set up.

If you google - natural ventilation, you will find references to companies such as breathingbuildings, passivent & you may get some ideas.

Regards

Barry

 

[Injector]

Why not wear headphones some of the time to give your neighbours a break? Someone who always had music or the tv on would get on my tits bigstylee.

 

[alexh]

What about air-conditioning ? My room is 10 x 9 Ft so would be impossible to stay in there without it. Quiet too, 23db

 

[brystonian]

Probably impractical, but I'll mention it just in case. Can you set up a fan-in-a-pipe* to suck the hot air away from your electronics and blow it out of the room, either out though the window (might let noise out though) or through your internal doorway into whichever room is next door ? When I was still a professional scientist/engineer we built a large version of this where we put all our control and diagnostic equipment, 20+ items, in overhead racks with glass doors and just sucked the hot air from it out through the roof. It made a huge difference to the lab's temperature stability, which is what we cared about. It's a basic physical principle that it's easier to shift heat when it's still concentrated in a small volume of hot air than when it's diffused out into a much larger volume of warm air.All that said, you'll still have to cope with the best part of a hundred watts of heat that a sedentary human being generates plus whatever you have in the way of lighting.

Looking at your original scheme you've built something which will get air into your room but is there a way for it to get out again ? If not then the pressure in the room will rise a little and the airflow through the fan will stall, so you'll be back to square one. Ideally you'd like to bring cooler air in at a low point in your room and let hot air out higher up somewhere. This way the chimney effect of hot air rising helps the airflow rather than fighting it. I still worry that some sound will get out through whatever you build though . But like the others I applaud you for trying. It's a very grown-up good-neighbourly thing to do :^ .

VB

*DIY shops sometimes sell complete kits for ventilating bathrooms.

Thanks VB, food for thought. Unfortunately my equipment is spread all over the place. So I can't figure a way of piping the heated air it generates out the room. Perhaps putting a vent in the interior door and then venting the hot air from the room into the loft would work? Pulling in cool air from the rest of the house and not fighting against the natural convection.

In a previous life I was involved in designing several acoustic trickle ventilators. These are larger versions than the one typically installed in domestic houses.The target market was high class apartments, schools, etc. where they want to allow fresh air into the rooms, but keep external noise to a minimum. The problem that you have is as soon as you have an opening, the noise will escape. Your idea of having a labyrinth is good, but the larger the open area, the greater the amount of noise will travel through it.

For a unit with a labyrinth pass and an opening of 47 x 1500mm, which was acoustically lined. Typical frequency reductions are 125hz 6dB, 250 7dB, 500 - 8dB, 1k - 15dB, 2k - 30dB, 4k - 30dB, 8k - 20dB. The thickness of your foam naturally limits low frequency attenuation. Not great reductions to keep the neighbours happy I'm afraid. :nerves:

To cool the room, ideally you need to take the hot air out at high level and introduce fresh air at low level. The Victorians understood this very well with sash windows - have them open top & bottom and a natural circulation will be set up.

If you google - natural ventilation, you will find references to companies such as breathingbuildings, passivent & you may get some ideas.

Regards

Barry

Thanks Barry, some interesting ideas and things to read up on. :^

By the look of your calculations my 'Crap Velcroed to the Window 'tm is going to be next to useless. :doh:

Why not wear headphones some of the time to give your neighbours a break? Someone who always had music or the tv on would get on my tits bigstylee.

Unfortunately due to messing my ears up I can't wear headphones at all. Luckily with the window shut no sound escapes my room. Its just this time of year its become a problem. I might have to just catch up on my reading.

What about air-conditioning ? My room is 10 x 9 Ft so would be impossible to stay in there without it. Quiet too, 23db

I was eying up some AC units on eBay last night.

I think this might be the way to go if the weathers going to stay this way. My rooms only 11x12.

 

[Injector]

Thanks VB, food for thought. Unfortunately my equipment is spread all over the place. So I can't figure a way of piping the heated air it generates out the room. Perhaps putting a vent in the interior door and then venting the hot air from the room into the loft would work? Pulling in cool air from the rest of the house and not fighting against the natural convection.Thanks Barry, some interesting ideas and things to read up on. :^

By the look of your calculations my 'Crap Velcroed to the Window 'tm is going to be next to useless. :doh:

Unfortunately due to messing my ears up I can't wear headphones at all. Luckily with the window shut no sound escapes my room. Its just this time of year its become a problem. I might have to just catch up on my reading.

I was eying up some AC units on eBay last night.

I think this might be the way to go if the weathers going to stay this way. My rooms only 11x12.

I can't use earphones or headphones either due to ear problemos.Sorry, didn't know you couldn't use them.

 

[alexh]

I am glad I had my room done, it cost about a grand installed, but once it is in there you will never be without it by choice again.

 

[rabski]

Miniature thermonuclear device.

Carefully placed, you will have no neighbour issues for a while. Has the additional benefit that you won't need to go out into the garden to cut back the shrubs for a while.

Win-win situation.

 

[brystonian]

I can't use earphones or headphones either due to ear problemos.Sorry, didn't know you couldn't use them.

No worries mate.

It is a pain, I had some nice Grado's but ended up giving them away.

I am glad I had my room done, it cost about a grand installed, but once it is in there you will never be without it by choice again.

It's getting very tempting, especially after today. My tubby albino arse just wasn't designed for this kind of weather.

Miniature thermonuclear device.Carefully placed, you will have no neighbour issues for a while. Has the additional benefit that you won't need to go out into the garden to cut back the shrubs for a while.

Win-win situation.

I'll ask the Russians if they've got a spare one kicking about.

 

[chris217]

You could always steal their hearing aid batteries.

 

[brystonian]

You could always steal their hearing aid batteries.

Now there's an idea!

Sadly my description of them as a 'nice old couple' was a bit misleading. They're only in their early sixties, so not that old at all.