Ok, I’m going to give one a go

It Cost How Much!?!

Twisted
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As an ex-owner of Harbeth 7ES, Harbeth don't really do bass correctly.

My advice, call Harbeth and ask their advice.

A sub for £400 probably will disappoint, people do this all the time, spend loads on the main speakers and then scrimp on the sub.
 

rdale

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I wonder when people say they cannot integrate a sub, it is actually a room mode problem rather than an integration problem.
I certainly think a lot of the setup tricks that REL and others propose are to do with avoiding room modes in rooms without bass traps as acoustic treatment.
 

petrichor

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As an ex-owner of Harbeth 7ES, Harbeth don't really do bass correctly.

My advice, call Harbeth and ask their advice.

A sub for £400 probably will disappoint, people do this all the time, spend loads on the main speakers and then scrimp on the sub.
Do you mean new or 2nd hand? Should get something decent for £400 2nd hand.
 

Rockchild

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Hi @Rockchild ,

About 10 months ago I purchased a BK P12-300SB Downward Firing sub in a Cherry finish. It has everything you want. I have used it for about 4 months but have struggled to match it with my Klipsch Cornwall IV.
It is currently boxed up in the loft.
You would be welcome to try it to see if you like it if you could find a way to overcome the distance between us! It is heavy at 30kgs but maybe a wam taxi could be sorted?
Let me know if you are interested,

Cheers
Ady
Very kind offer Ady, thank you. Logistically it would be difficult I think.

BK however are on my shortlist as they are generally better than their price point suggests and with all the connectivity options.

I hear what people are saying about matching with Harbeth but disagree that they can’t do bass because they can. I’ve had several models in the range but the HL5’s are the hardest imo to get the right balance.

I know it’s there and would like to add a bit more strength to them.

I’m happy to experiment with everything regarding positioning and integration and should it not be to satisfaction, there is no reason it won’t in the other system in the lounge.

I’m certainly aware that a larger investment in the sub would bring greater benefits but need to start somewhere.
 
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Rockchild

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I wouldn't waste my money on a £400 sub to supplement £5000 Harbeths, it'll just ruin the sound.
It’s a difficult scenario and your not wrong in many ways because there is so much right already. It’s a fine balance. Borrowing a 30kg sub isn’t easy, especially in Cornwall 😊
 

bencat

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Have you spoken to Colin @greybeard he used to have subs for his BBC style small monitors not sure if he still does .
 

rabski

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There are subs and there are subs. For £400 or so you may be lucky buying used, but at all costs avoid anything remotely targeted at the home cinema market.

I'm also going to stick my neck out and disagree with the suggestions that 'big is always better'. Tight, articulated bass is to my ears way better than deep, flabby and poorly defined. Depending on the implementation, two smaller drivers can be at least as good as a single larger one, and sometimes notably better sounding.

With something like Harbeths, I'd rather have a sub that is 'tight and fast', than one that produces floor-shaking bass, lacking proper timing.
 

MartinC

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...at all costs avoid anything remotely targeted at the home cinema market.
Are you basing that on experience with any particular subwoofers?

As a general comment on 'tightness' I'll just mention that sealed subs are generally better in this regard that ported or passive radiator subs.
 
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bencat

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Are you basing that on experience with any particular subwoofers?

As a general comment on 'tightness' I'll just mention that sealed subs are generally better in this regard that ported or passive radiator subs.
Strange that as I have also noted that sealed unit speakers have tighter and faster bass than those ported designs I have heard .
 
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MartinC

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Strange that as I have also noted that sealed unit speakers have tighter and faster bass than those ported designs I have heard .
I believe that inherently a sealed design has a better impulse response (shorter decay time).
 
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rdale

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There are subs and there are subs. For £400 or so you may be lucky buying used, but at all costs avoid anything remotely targeted at the home cinema market.

I'm also going to stick my neck out and disagree with the suggestions that 'big is always better'. Tight, articulated bass is to my ears way better than deep, flabby and poorly defined. Depending on the implementation, two smaller drivers can be at least as good as a single larger one, and sometimes notably better sounding.

With something like Harbeths, I'd rather have a sub that is 'tight and fast', than one that produces floor-shaking bass, lacking proper timing.
I use a pair of REL T5x’s which have 8 inch drivers and they certainly are tight and fast, and easily go down to 30 hz. I think the OP’s assumption that because the main speakers have 8 inch drivers, the subs must need to have at least 10 inch drivers is probably wrong. A pair of T5x’s would certainly work well with the Harbeths, although in a larger room a larger sub in the REL range like a T9x might be needed. That would way over the budget of 400 pounds though, especially if you wanted to install bass traps at the same time, like I believe you should.
 

Rockchild

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I use a pair of REL T5x’s which have 8 inch drivers and they certainly are tight and fast, and easily go down to 30 hz. I think the OP’s assumption that because the main speakers have 8 inch drivers, the subs must need to have at least 10 inch drivers is probably wrong. A pair of T5x’s would certainly work well with the Harbeths, although in a larger room a larger sub in the REL range like a T9x might be needed. That would way over the budget of 400 pounds though, especially if you wanted to install bass traps at the same time, like I believe you should.
Regarding driver size, it seems quite the norm to be recommended a larger sub than your main drivers but I’m guided by who has had better results.
Your right about two subs and that would be ideal.
I’m thinking going this route is probably a non start and could create more issues.

I like hearing people’s opinions based on experience as that’s what this forum is about 👍🏻
 

rdale

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Regarding driver size, it seems quite the norm to be recommended a larger sub than your main drivers but I’m guided by who has had better results.
Your right about two subs and that would be ideal.
I’m thinking going this route is probably a non start and could create more issues.

I like hearing people’s opinions based on experience as that’s what this forum is about 👍🏻
I’ve just tried this speaker matching page on REL’s site:

https://rel.net/blog/speaker/super-hl5-plus/?intended_use=music&room_size=small

It recommends a REL S/812 even for a small room, which cost 2800 pounds each. Hmm, maybe I’m wrong about T5x’s being a good match, but REL’s recommendation does seem like overkill.
 

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