One for the old 'uns.

wow and flutter

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For those of you who can remember the pre-punk era do you feel the same as I do that we're experiencing deja-vu?

As I seem to remember, Punk was preceded by lots of mediocre music in the charts (New Seekers; Osmonds; Brady Family; crap; crap; etc) along with a few tired super groups turning out pretty average stuff and some older bands experiencing revivals, only to churn out their previous hits. (And the Rolling Stones & Quo just continued as if nothing affected them).

Today, we have the charts full of trashy, never to be remembered, overhyped crap, dominated by X Factor types with their cynically manufactured pap; poor quality 2nd division artists and material;too many reunions (Police; Zeppelin I could live with as they are true classic acts) but Spice Girls; Duran Duran; and now Westlife etc.? they were crap first time around); and old albums being re-issued.

Oh, I almost forgot& the Rolling Stones & Quo just continue as if nothing affected them.

Surely we need a similar musical revolution to what we saw with Punk. A tumultuous change which will sweep away the mediocrity down the toilet, and bring a fresh perspective, not just with the music but also the cynical approach of the industry.

Not all the music today is atrocious, but I think the good bands would survivebut the rest of the has beens, and the "shouldn't even get a chance" wannabees need to be wiped out and hopefully expunged from the musical map.

W&F

 

Tiggi

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I find that there's plenty of excellent new music being made, it just doesn't appear in "The Charts". The recent thread about good 2007 releases highlights countless class albums, and I don't doubt that there are huge numbers of crackers which we've all missed.

...And this isn't just true of current music. I think it might have been Injector who fairly recently said that he could quite happily spend his days exploring music from 30 years ago or more.

It's all out there, you've just got to find out what to try next.

 

jkbmusic

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Is Hip-Hop of the last 10 years not the punk of yesterday. Rebelious crap in other words.
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G

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Tiggi wrote:

I find that there's plenty of excellent new music being made, it just doesn't appear in "The Charts". The recent thread about good 2007 releases highlights countless class albums, and I don't doubt that there are huge numbers of crackers which we've all missed.
Quality post . Its forums like these and others that alert you to new music. Also the reco's from some of the hifi mags of which i must say Hifiplus's music section certainly provided me with some unknowns i never would have found.

 

meninblack

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When I was a kid, there was half an hour of pop music on TV every week and one radio station that played pop. We bought records at non-specialised shops (Woolies, Smiths, BHS, Boots) that all stocked the same narrow selection.

By contrast, the diversity available today is quite remarkable. Anyone who can record a track and put it into mp3 format can get access to the kind of audience that would have been reserved for superstars in the early 70's.

The downside of diversity is dilution: the mainstream CD sales are way down, simply beacause so many other choices are available. For this reason, it seems unlikely that a "phenomenon" like Punk could happen these days - it would simply settle into a niche rather than sweeping all before it.

 

Chumpy

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Although I once wentto school in Bridgend, I am sorry that you are upset by a Red Cross charity release (albeit from Tesco) which in my opinion looks/sounds rather nice.

I am bias(s)ed because I like Eva Cassidy/Katie Melua and enjoy buying all of their stuff even though Ms Cassidy was avoided by the USA record-industry until her early death in 1996.

Last year 2006-12-24 (Christmas Eve) the often-naff ITV in UK broadcast a show called 'Duets Impossible' where amongst lots of stuff I don't like Ms EC/KM were edited to 'sing' 'Somewhere over the rainbow'. This charity recording which unfortunately upsets you was 'prepared' at that production.

Happy Red Crossmas to all.

How the industry has changed (not ...).

Eventually - after 1 year - I liked 'punk' energy etc in 1978 UK.

There is IMO still room for nice female voices evenamongst the low bitrate digital numbers game of 2007 (formerly known as the year when bad capitalism still capitalised).

 

smegger68

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Chumpy wrote:

Although I once wentto school in Bridgend, I am sorry that you are upset by a Red Cross charity release (albeit from Tesco) which in my opinion looks/sounds rather nice.I am bias(s)ed because I like Eva Cassidy/Katie Melua and enjoy buying all of their stuff even though Ms Cassidy was avoided by the USA record-industry until her early death in 1996.

Last year 2006-12-24 (Christmas Eve) the often-naff ITV in UK broadcast a show called 'Duets Impossible' where amongst lots of stuff I don't like Ms EC/KM were edited to 'sing' 'Somewhere over the rainbow'. This charity recording which unfortunately upsets you was 'prepared' at that production.

Happy Red Crossmas to all.

How the industry has changed (not ...).

Eventually - after 1 year - I liked 'punk' energy etc in 1978 UK.

There is IMO still room for nice female voices evenamongst the low bitrate digital numbers game of 2007 (formerly known as the year when bad capitalism still capitalised).
If people want to give to the red cross that's their perogative, they dont need the likes of Katie Melua crooning all over the sublime Ms Cassidy to tug at their concience. It's a cynical device designed to extract wonga from wallet at the artistic expense of an artist who cant say no. A naff one-off tv show is one thing, to make a record out of it just goes over the line IMHO, charity cause or not. Tesco and the Red Cross would be better served by either recording Ms Melua solo or at least with someone who is still breathing.

Where did you go to school BTW?

 

The Strat

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An excellent thread.

There has always been really good music, really awful music, movement around the various genres and what constitutes good or bad is of course subjective opinion. With regard to punk my own view is that it was a complete and utter falsehood - it wasn't called the great rock 'n' roll swindle for no reason - in that the roots of punk were in New York not UK. Being a late 60/70s dinosaur my own taste was (and remains) Free, CCR, The Who, Joni, Led Zeppelin (although their over indulgence I admit can be a turn off)etc as well as my liking for jazz, classical, blues, and punk for the most part ripped the heart and soul out of music - in effect a bunch of talentless idiots making a splash. But not all that came out the period was bad - Ian Drury, Television, later on REM etc and even early Dire Straits had overtones -before they broke they were playing around London with Siouxie, X Ray Specs and I once saw them jam with Talking Heads.

With regard to todaythe scene has moved on - as has been pointed out the diversity and availability is so much greater. But similar to the 60s/70s there is still pop dross but it makes people happy and equally there are good artists - I personally champion the Zutons but equally Mars V, Ryan Adams (genius) etc all cut the mustard. The Melua/Cassidy thing? - I guess if the Cassidy Estate have agreed well OK but for my part a more creative approach would have been for Melua to have recorded something new with Eva Cassidy on the B-Side (in old money!).

Regards,

Strat

 

Chumpy

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[(School 16 in Bridgend - the Grammar (Boys unfortunately ...) 1963-9]

I agree that although I like people I like (e.g. Dylan/Costello/U2)doing almost anything that they haven't done before that the KM thang might better have been she doing WAWW on her own, with e.g. Eva Cassidy & e.g. Louis Armstrong or James Bond doing their version on same 'charity' CD.

KM really likes Eva Cassidy, and wrote/sang IMO a jolly good song to her - 'Faraway voice' - so there is some history there.

BBC4 TV is quite good amongst other things at showing old revered musical artiste hour on Tuesdays at 8 p.m. - recently I have learned more about Ella Fitzgerald/Val Doonican, both of whom did good stuff (Mario Lanza tonight which I shall choose to miss).

 

rockmeister

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true true w&f...as a gentle long haired folky type, I hated punk, but looking back, you're right...one of the few musical revolutions that really shook the establishment and blew a lot of crap out of the system in a way that nothing has since. It's a bit of a tracy emin/chapman bros situation tho aint it...once youve done the bed, the disfigured corpses, the photo stuffing money where the sun dont shine, the dung art...there's no real impact in less any more. The only solution is maybe a radical return to something musical and well constructed...a bit how people keep saying that 'painting' is making a comeback.....
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wow and flutter

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Tiggi wrote:

I find that there's plenty of excellent new music being made, it just doesn't appear in "The Charts". The recent thread about good 2007 releases highlights countless class albums, and I don't doubt that there are huge numbers of crackers which we've all missed....And this isn't just true of current music. I think it might have been Injector who fairly recently said that he could quite happily spend his days exploring music from 30 years ago or more.

It's all out there, you've just got to find out what to try next.
Tiggi

I wasn't suggesting that there isn't some good music being produced, but nowhere enough, and what there is is being swamped by dross.

I also agree that chart music is not a very good barometer of the quality of music available, but sadly it is a measure of what is being bought, downloaded and played on radio. I'd like to switch the radio on and find programmes which broadcast the music that is not the product of the mediocre.

My argument was that punk had the effect of an industrial strength drain cleaner on the music industry, and I believe we now need a 21st century equivalent. Like Rockmeister, I didn't like punk, although I now appreciate the positive impactit had.

W&F

Edited for the P.S.

P.S. As for Katie Melua and Eva Cassidy, then I like the music of both, and if the "duet"is to raise funds for a good cause, then I'm not going to complain.

 

Chumpy

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There is too much dross on all media, and because there is too much media it is difficult for people to realize that there is good stuff on all media.

People learn to like what they like, even if it is dross.

 

The Strat

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wow and flutter wrote:

Like Rockmeister, I didn't like punk, although I now appreciate the positive impactit had.W&F
Did it have a positive impact?

Aren't Pinkfloyd, Led Zep, The Eagles, Dire Straits richer than ever? What was the fall out from Punk? - new romantic spikey haircuts -Haircut 100 indeed, Aha (sorry Duvet!), Tears For Fears, Duran Duran...............the anarchy didn't really last did it but it did kill musicianship?

Strat

 

meninblack

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The Strat wrote:

Did it have a positive impact? Aren't Pinkfloyd, Led Zep, The Eagles, Dire Straits richer than ever? What was the fall out from Punk? - new romantic spikey haircuts -Haircut 100 indeed, Aha (sorry Duvet!), Tears For Fears, Duran Duran...............the anarchy didn't really last did it but it did kill musicianship?

Strat
I think it did. If nothing else, it showed that you could be successful by being innovative and different. In the early 70's, bands like Zep and Floys were succeding by following a well-trodden musical path, and everything was getting rather formulaic and same-y. Punk was the shot in the arm that showed the younger generation of musicians that there was an alternative to long hair, boring lyricsand self-indulgent guitar masturbation!
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The Strat

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Tiggi wrote:

^^ Seconded.The idea that instrumental ability is the only useful yardstick of the value of a piece of music is thankfully now outmoded muso wank.
Well in fairness guys I was questionning whether punk killed musicianship rather than making a statement of absolute fact, and I wasn't suggesting that it was the only yardstick. Oh and by the way I have got an Undertones album!

Strat

 

RichardG

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In the early 70's, bands like Zep and Floys were succeding by following a well-trodden musical path, and everything was getting rather formulaic and same-y. Punk was the shot in the arm that showed the younger generation of musicians that there was an alternative to long hair, boring lyricsand self-indulgent guitar masturbation!
tongue.png
Surely that's the same criticism that can be levelled at punk after the first wave - there's only so much you can do with 3 chords and a bit of shouting.

But there's room for both. I think the impact of punk has been massively overstated tbh. You were all conned (but maybe that was the point).

I like the idea of punk with its open doors to all, but it did mean it's a lot harder to sort the wheat from the chaf. More bandwagon jumping that most other genres surely. As an ideal it's great, but in practice, it didn't really work did it? Witness the Sex Pistols (annual) reunion gigs - "we're being postmodern ironic by being up front about chasing the cash", but here's the news fellas - I'm being post-post modern ironic by ignoring you even more than I did in the 70s...

I'm not being elitist by asking for some level of musical competence from performers am I? You don't have to be John McClaughlin for me to enjoy it, but to the letter of the law, this fails the first test of punk.

And yes, British punk was rubbish compared to New York punk (which was quite good).

Katie Melua - Burn the Witch!!!!!

Maybe Tesco should just give the money from their bottomless money pit without desecrating the memory of a very talented woman withthis cynical "oh it's Christmas"tacky cut'n'paste job - can't wait to see the video! Jamie Cullum with Roy Castle is already lined up for next year allegedly.

 

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