Organik in general

[Newton John]

I am always reluctant to quote my non-audiophile wife on sound quality because it’s a cliche in hifi circles. Also a bit elitist and sexist.

Anyway, she came in a couple of nights ago and sat next to me while I was listening to Bob Dylan’s Fragments, The Bootleg Series version of Time Out of Mind. She was hoping that I’d watch TV with her.

After a few tracks she said “You know, I love Bob’s voice.”

You don’t hear that very often. I wonder if Organik’s got anything to do with it.

 

[Craigas]

No, my wife and I were astounded by the quality and sound of the Fragments album. I never was a big fan of Bob Dylan's voice (or even a little fan) but the album (and his voice) are fantastic sounding.

We are Akudorik Katalyst, with a pair of subs, network switch and power supply upgrades, iso-accoutic treatments, and stock KDSM/1 so it's not Organik IMHO.

My point is, there is Organik, Organik NGKDSM, Exaktbox Organik, and many other variations and variables so Organik in "general" is not enough when describing it, need to know the entire platform, before and after, for context.

That said, please keep describing it in "general" terms as thats the impressions I'm after as well.

 

[Newton John]

No, my wife and I were astounded by the quality and sound of the Fragments album. I never was a big fan of Bob Dylan's voice (or even a little fan) but the album (and his voice) are fantastic sounding.

We are Akudorik Katalyst, with a pair of subs, network switch and power supply upgrades, iso-accoutic treatments, and stock KDSM/1 so it's not Organik IMHO.

My point is, there is Organik, Organik NGKDSM, Exaktbox Organik, and many other variations and variables so Organik in "general" is not enough when describing it, need to know the entire platform, before and after, for context.

That said, please keep describing it in "general" terms as thats the impressions I'm after as well.

Crikey! Don’t set too much store by one tongue in check anecdote. Perhaps, I should have put smilies, LOLs or something else all over it to make it clear that it wasn’t entirely serious. The first paragraph should have told you that.

In any case, it should be read in the context of what I and others wrote at length in earlier posts. One Bob Dylan album isn’t critical. It’s almost every new to me album that I have listened to on Qobuz and also local files. Even the rip of the original Time Out of Mind CD release sounds great.

The system is outlined in my profile. Surely, you don’t think I’d be so perverse as to comment on sound quality without that being available. It was Katalyst until 14 days ago so Organik has barely had enough time settle in.

Moomintroll‘s comment is particularly pertinent. I quote “I wouldn’t go back to Katalyst. Once you’ve heard what Katalyst isn’t doing, compared to Organik, you’ll understand why I say this.”

Of course, the success of Organik is built on other developments and the many combinations they come in. In that respect, I quoted the example of its relationship to the Next Gen Hub. Nevertheless, it is clear that Organik is something special. This is nothing new - many people have been saying it for the past couple of years. The point is how is it better.

I am not going to rehearse all the arguments presented in earlier posts. However, you need to suspend judgement until you‘ve read them.

 

[Craigas]

Crikey! Don’t set too much store by one tongue in check anecdote. Perhaps, I should have put smilies, LOLs or something else all over it to make it clear that it wasn’t entirely serious. The first paragraph should have told you that.

In any case, it should be read in the context of what I and others wrote at length in earlier posts. One Bob Dylan album isn’t critical. It’s almost every new to me album that I have listened to on Qobuz and also local files. Even the rip of the original Time Out of Mind CD release sounds great.

The system is outlined in my profile. Surely, you don’t think I’d be so perverse as to comment on sound quality without that being available. It was Katalyst until 14 days ago so Organik has barely had enough time settle in.

Moomintroll‘s comment is particularly pertinent. I quote “I wouldn’t go back to Katalyst. Once you’ve heard what Katalyst isn’t doing, compared to Organik, you’ll understand why I say this.”

Of course, the success of Organik is built on other developments and the many combinations they come in. In that respect, I quoted the example of its relationship to the Next Gen Hub. Nevertheless, it is clear that Organik is something special. This is nothing new - many people have been saying it for the past couple of years. The point is how is it better.

I am not going to rehearse all the arguments presented in earlier posts. However, you need to suspend judgement until you‘ve read them.

Should of used smileys myself, no issue with your post whatsoever, all good on my end.

No judgement either, I'm actually still god smacked at how good my system is sounding. Cant stop listening. That said, I'm sure I'll upgrade to Organik as well, if I ever get the chance.

I'm also keen for more "how is it better comparisons".

 

[Newton John]

Should of used smileys myself, no issue with your post whatsoever, all good on my end.

No judgement either, I'm actually still god smacked at how good my system is sounding. Cant stop listening. That said, I'm sure I'll upgrade to Organik as well, if I ever get the chance.

I'm also keen for more "how is it better comparisons".

Thanks, Craigas. Your suggestion of comparisons is well made. It would be interesting to know which characteristics are due to Organik alone and which are due to its interactions with other components/innovations.

Very pleased to hear you’re enjoying your system.

I wish my wife was as interested in listening to music as yours. Mine doesn’t share that with me. Although she will quite happily go to gigs, she doesn’t like to listen at home. She can tell the hifi sounds good, but only TV relaxes her.

 

[Ben Webster]

My wife also isn‘t very interested in music (she‘s has a small Pioneer mini system).

If you can borrow some kids (between 3 and 6 years) it‘s also a good indication. Sometimes they are dancing in front of the system, sometimes they leave the room.

 

[Moomintroll]

Absolutely, but what is Organik doing for you?

Been giving this some more thought. As I said earlier, I’m perfectly happy listening to BBC Radio 2. This generally means I’m listening to “pop” songs that I first heard decades ago, but probably don‘t hear very frequently. I’ve just listened to Living on the Ceiling by Blancmange - a perfectly hummable little tune. There’s a repeating keyboard line in it and rather than just being aware of a keyboard playing, I can now hear the melody that it’s playing. If I was learning to play that melody, it’s suddenly become much easier. This may be a good example when explaining what we mean by “ Tunedem”?

’troll

 

[akamatsu]

That makes sense to me, but we are out step with the people on other hifi forums who talk about “diminishing returns”. The proof of the pudding is in the listening.

As we are talking about music, shouldn’t it be “augmenting returns” rather than “enhancing” them. 😉

"Augmenting returns" it is. I looked up both words. There is a subtle difference.

Thinking about "diminishing returns," it seems that this does hold true, but beyond a level of resolution, returns become augmented. I experienced this yesterday as I improved the stands upon which my kit sits. Reducing vibrations by an "invisible" amount resulted in an astounding improvement in resolution, that is, less loss of musical information resulting in more music. Setting the stage for Organik to arrive.

 

[Newton John]

"Augmenting returns" it is. I looked up both words. There is a subtle difference.

Thinking about "diminishing returns," it seems that this does hold true, but beyond a level of resolution, returns become augmented. I experienced this yesterday as I improved the stands upon which my kit sits. Reducing vibrations by an "invisible" amount resulted in an astounding improvement in resolution, that is, less loss of musical information resulting in more music. Setting the stage for Organik to arrive.

Thanks, Michael. I didn’t know that. (Note for non-musicians - I was just making a nerdy joke based diminished and augmented chords)

Love the explanation. It makes sense intuitively and supports the @Paulsurround philosophy of tweaking Hifi.

A few months ago, I developed a qualitative theoretical model of the audiophilia which I consider to be consistent with “augmenting results”. When I have time, I’ll give this some more thought.

 

[akamatsu]

Thanks, Michael. I didn’t know that. (Note for non-musicians - I was just making a nerdy joke based diminished and augmented chords)

Love the explanation. It makes sense intuitively and supports the @Paulsurround philosophy of tweaking Hifi.

A few months ago, I developed a qualitative theoretical model of the audiophilia which I consider to be consistent with “augmenting results”. When I have time, I’ll give this some more thought.

Your joke was lost on me. My musical studies ended a while back with classical guitar lessons. It was mainly read the notes and play them correctly.

I've recently distinguished two philosophies of tweaking or setting up a Linn hifi system. Linn's ethos is to minimize the loss of musical information. This attempts to make the hifi system agnostic, and simply reveals the recorded information. This is the ethos to which I subscribe. I follow Linn's recommendations for system setup, and do my best to apply the utmost precision. I find that less loss of musical information results in more music. Imagine that.

Others take the approach of using "tweaks" to colour (distort) the sound to their liking. This often results in more loss of musical information (less music), but this is the sound signature that the listener prefers.

 

[Craigas]

Others take the approach of using "tweaks" to colour (distort) the sound to their liking. This often results in more loss of musical information (less music), but this is the sound signature that the listener prefers.

Oh-oh, now you've gone and done it. 😂

 

[akamatsu]

Oh-oh, now you've gone and done it. 😂

It's kind of like tube (valve) amps. Of course they distort like heck, but this distortion occurs as "warmth" to some listeners, and that's what they like.

Sorry, straying too far off topic.

 

[Craigas]

It's kind of like tube (valve) amps. Of course they distort like heck, but this distortion occurs as "warmth" to some listeners, and that's what they like.

Sorry, straying too far off topic.

Doubling down? Let me know when I should retort lol.

 

[Craigas]

q

I wish my wife was as interested in listening to music as yours. Mine doesn’t share that with me. Although she will quite happily go to gigs, she doesn’t like to listen at home. She can tell the hifi sounds good, but only TV relaxes her.

I'm lucky that way, my wife, Petra, finds more music than I to listen to. She found the Bob Dylan album and countless more. My skills go more to the engineering side of the house.

 

[dikki]

My wife also isn‘t very interested in music (she‘s has a small Pioneer mini system).

If you can borrow some kids (between 3 and 6 years) it‘s also a good indication. Sometimes they are dancing in front of the system, sometimes they leave the room.

So actually tune dem should be called kid dem.

 

[Paulssurround]

Oh-oh, now you've gone and done it. 😂

Always interesting to see people mock what they don’t understand 😂😂

 

[Paulssurround]

Thanks, Michael. I didn’t know that. (Note for non-musicians - I was just making a nerdy joke based diminished and augmented chords)

Love the explanation. It makes sense intuitively and supports the @Paulsurround philosophy of tweaking Hifi.

A few months ago, I developed a qualitative theoretical model of the audiophilia which I consider to be consistent with “augmenting results”. When I have time, I’ll give this some more thought.

Thanks John

I‘m not even sure I have a Paulssurround philosophy of tweaking HiFi. 😊🙏

My goal is to get the most potential out of my Linn system, that provides sound quality well beyond a basic setup.

I try out almost every potential upgrade in my system before I buy, with expert advice and suggestions from the guys here. Then I do an audition of the new products in my system over a week or two. My audio buddies will often visit to give their impressions and conclusions, on whether they think it is a buy or not.

In most cases, the first minute or so of music will often reveal the upgrade will be a winner or not

Every new upgrade I have done over the last few years, there has been significant augmentation.

Setting up a Linn system per Linn’s recommendations will get you a very satisfactory level of musical enjoyment, but this doesn’t even come close to what your Linn system is capable of. Any suggestion that all upgrades colours or distorts the sound is absurd.

The journey from the source to your ears is fraught with signal loss and musical loss at every step of the way, with the exception of having the DACs in the speaker, which retains the data mitigating music loss. However, even that can be improved upon, with better switches, Ethernet cables, power supplies and so on.

Every upgrade I do mitigates signal loss and musical loss from the source to my ears, and yes I am doubling and tripling down. 😊

A short list of recent upgrades that have made stellar contributions to getting much more out of my Linn system include:

Linn Klimax DSM/3 Hub

Isoacoustic Oreas, Gaias, and Pucks

Silent Angel Switches with a Forester power supply, with Cardas Clear Ethernet cables

Cardas Clear Beyond power cords

Synergistic Research Tranquility Pods

Synergistic Research Active Grounding Block SE

Room Acoustic treatment

Each one of these items has been phenomenal in their ability to bring out so much more out of my system. Everyone of these upgrades are all on the level of a component upgrade. My system has never sounded better.

As always, YMMV

 

[Jail4CEOs2]

@Paulssurround , have you thought how you could put a pod on your Akubariks?

 

[Paulssurround]

@Paulssurround , have you thought how you could put a pod on your Akubariks?

I’ve thought about it, but not sure how I would do it, as I am not sure exactly where to place the pods on the back of the Akubarik‘s amplifier module.

I would think the best place would be closest to the internal DAC’s

Perhaps I would need two pods for each Akubarik?

I think it is unlikely anyone has ever done this before for Akubariks

If successful, I suspect it could be the best sounding Exakt Akubariks ever 😉

 

[CaptenBonScott]

Nobody is coming on here to say any upgrade is making their music sound worse. But of interest would be your take on whether it was worth the money/is good value for money. As we all go up the hi-fi ladder the bang per buck gradually decreases, it would be interesting to get these views from members.

I personally think that Katalyst was a bigger upgrade than what I have heard so far from Organik, especially if you look at how much more expensive it has become with a new dac, for me 38,000 euros for my Selekt. I had an Exaktbox I upgrade with 4 katalyst dacs for around that price. I have listened a lot and compared and unfortunately it is not worth the money, for me anyway. I focus on cables and power filters instead, and waiting for the next dac so I can shop on sale