Pi Id Jriver I2S W4S ?

[bohemian]

I am getting a little confused but I am sure there will some answers in the combined intellects of Wammers!

I am currently using a Windows 7 laptop (a specification which refuses the win10 upgrade!) and a usb connected, separately powered hard drive for storage. i am running JRiver MC23 and taking the output from USB into the usb input of my Wyred4Sound Dac2v2.

Sounds great, but windows annoys me.

JRiver have produced the Id, and one of its incarnations is raspberry pi id.  You can get the sd card preinstalled with JRiver for $39 or the complete pi in a case with JRiver installed for $99 plus shipping. (There are also other versions of the Id at higher prices, but not raspberried)

What interests me is the potential for taking the signal from the pi by I2S and hdmi into the I2S hdmi socket of the dac, and whether that will have any advantageous effect on sound quality?

The W4S dac does not need drivers for Linux, so that resolved one question I had. The other advantage is the reduction in size. The laptop and the pi id can be used with JRemote.

Has anyone any observations on this topic, or suggestions to make?  Any advice, cautions or experience would be appreciated.

 

[rv295]

Both methods are valid although I don't think you're going to notice ANY difference between asynch USB and another serial bus interface with i2s.   I wouldn't expect any loss either though so go for it if that was your only concern. 

Oops, just re-read your post and you mention i2s via HDMI... I haven't used that before but can't imagine it would make a difference.

 

[mickbald]

What about using a digi pro if you have a coax or digital input.

 https://thepihut.com/collections/raspberry-pi-audio/products/hifiberry-digi-pro

If you use raspbian (and most others) then Jriver can easily be downloaded and a master licence will allow you to use Windows and Linux. 

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111505.0.html

 

[bohemian]

Thanks very much for the comments, gents. Appreciated.

My dac accepts usb and plays 24/192 well. I do not have a pi as yet, but the JRiver Pi Id full-baked seemed a good deal at $99 plus shipping (in case and with psu and JRiver installed).

As the pi has both usb and I2S outputs, I was just wondering about the the possibility of using it, seeing as the dac also has I2S input hdmi socket.

I haven't had any problems with pc usb to usb on the dac - just an occasional brief dropout, but that could have other causes.

or, as the guy in Maplins remarked, 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?'.  Maybe I should stay as I am?

Thanks for the links, too, Mickbald.  The installation forum seems a bit complex for me, I think that is why I was attracted by the pre-installed version from JRiver.

 

[bencat]

I have a Perpetual Technology Pa1 + Pa3 and these can feed the signal from one to the other by SPDIF over a phono or via Balanced XLR . But they also offer an I2s connection via a very odd mini Din socket.

This give you the perfect option to wire all three and then just cycle between outputs/inputs on the PA1 + PA3 and you get an instant comparison of each signal connection . Differences are not huge in my view but there is a repeatable difference . After some  time listening in my view the I2S is the best connection and the best audio quality provided you do not use the original supplied lead which is frankly pants . I have a Kimber lead and another strange purple coloured lead (sorry no idea the make came with the units I last bought) and using either of these lifts the sound quality to the best using these two units .

The only issue I have been able to establish with a couple of electrical engineer friends is that I2S was only ever designed as a signal transfer at chip / circuit board level so it is not robust and any connections need to be either very short and / or shielded to ensure that there is no interference with the signal .

In my view I think the option of using the Pi with I2S output is well worth pursuing and should get you the very best sound quality output .

 

[aswillman]

I successfully plugged a Pi into a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF and used its I2S over HDMI to my DAC.  I think it sounds better but I am sure this is not objective and is expectation bias.  The Digi Pro is certainly a good option to get a co-ax SPDIF feed from your Pi.

The X-SPDIF is powered by the Pi, doesn’t take up too much space & offers several different options including AES via XLR.  Might be worth approaching a retailer to see if the’ll do a home demo?

 

[bohemian]

Thank you for all your replies and suggestions.

My initial foray into the subject has resulted in the purchase of a JRiver Idpi, which I ordered from USA on the 17th and arrived this very morning!

As it is Pi plus case plus power supply plus sd card with Linux and JRiver already installed, I thought it a reasonable buy at $99.

I am going to research the JRiver wiki and their forum for how to get it going. I am a linux virgin, so this mght be fun! (Or not).  I have 30 days for return if not happy.

 

[szczemirek]

JRiver have produced the Id, and one of its incarnations is raspberry pi id.  You can get the sd card preinstalled with JRiver for $39 or the complete pi in a case with JRiver installed for $99 plus shipping. (There are also other versions of the Id at higher prices, but not raspberried)

What interests me is the potential for taking the signal from the pi by I2S and hdmi into the I2S hdmi socket of the dac, and whether that will have any advantageous effect on sound quality?

Unfortunately jRiver ID doesn't support I2S. Shame

PS. I have ID and it's make me unhappy

 

[bohemian]

Unfortunately jRiver ID doesn't support I2S. Shame

PS. I have ID and it's make me unhappy

In what way does it make you unhappy, Mirek?  Are you able to use the usb out of the ID?  If you have problems, have you tried asking for help on the JRiver forum?

Is it the ID hardware you bought, or the Raspberry Pi version?  I know the pi will take the hifiberry digi+ which has I2S output, but I haven't got mine set up yet. I have to sort out the logistics of connectivity in my room. The pi really needs lan connection rather than wireless, So I'm having to use ethernet over power and then a cable connection. I don't want wires stretching all over my living room!

 

[szczemirek]

I need I2S on my Raspberry ID jRiver but, like I wrote - jRiver in this version not support that.

 

[bohemian]

Sadly true, my friend.

Those of you who have met me are aware of the fact that I am challenged follicly. This situation has been exacerbated recently by my attempts to get JRiver on raspberry pi working.  So many difficulties, most of them of my own makng.  Three steps forward, two steps back! Getting vnc to see it from my pc; only having one monitor, keyboard and mouse so swapping from pc to pi and back; importing music and duplicating it!

Finally, now I am listening to music from a hard drive attached to a pi, via usb to my dac and playing dsd64, no less.

Sounding good too.   j:

 

[hifinutt]

ah you can still be bald and very clever !!! [follicly challenged] . glad you got it sorted 

 

[Andrei]

Sadly true, my friend.

Those of you who have met me are aware of the fact that I am challenged follicly. This situation has been exacerbated recently by my attempts to get JRiver on raspberry pi working.  So many difficulties, most of them of my own makng.  Three steps forward, two steps back! Getting vnc to see it from my pc; only having one monitor, keyboard and mouse so swapping from pc to pi and back; importing music and duplicating it!

Finally, now I am listening to music from a hard drive attached to a pi, via usb to my dac and playing dsd64, no less.

Sounding good too.   j:

Buy some expensive interconnect cables - brand does not matter too much, just so long as they are marketed very well.  Extract the snake oil from them and apply that to affected parts of the anatomy while listening to the soundtrack of Hair.  

 

[bohemian]

Buy some expensive interconnect cables - brand does not matter too much, just so long as they are marketed very well.  Extract the snake oil from them and apply that to affected parts of the anatomy while listening to the soundtrack of Hair.  

xD

 

[bencat]

One of the things about Rasberry Pi is that it is a blank canvas and has nothing on it to start with . This is both good and bad . If you know nothing about Linux etc then you are stumped which is bad . However as the software or firmware needed to make it work have been done by other much more gifted individuals and they let you download on to an SD card this is good as it takes all the heavy lifting away just load and in most cases it works.

Now the Pi can and does output I2S from its internal DAC . This means that changing certain lines in the code on the Pi can make it send its digital output to the HDMI plug as I2S . Now as this change is done at the base level it matters not what the Jriver imprint is doing the system (sorry my word and probably not the correct one)  will make the Digital output go via the HDMI socket and it will be I2S.

Now while I know the above to be correct and I know the above is possible I am not the one that will be able to tell you how this is achieved . There may well be some on here that can give you the line of code that you copy in to the Raspberry Pi using a Putty screen  (If you have not done this before then look up one of the How To Guides on line it is very simple) .

Failing that have a look at the Raspberry Pi forum and see if there is a Jriver Section and then do a search .If you cannoy find a thread that covers this add a Topic . Some of the people that contribute to this site are really good and can help .

 

[bencat]

Apologies doing the normal school by error of not looking first . Jriver have a Forum and this is probably the ideal place to check how to get what you are looking for

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,54.0.html?PHPSESSID=efl6n1ekove6qa3pjpn9k1oku7

 

[bohemian]

Thanks, Andrew. I have been researching the JRiver forum, and have the pi working through usb.  Nobody seems to think it is worth using I2S because of jitter problems, so I may just settle for the fact that I have music playing - and up to dsd quality.

I look forward to seeing you at Kegworth.

chris

 

[bencat]

Hi Chris

Yes it will be nice to catch up frankly would not worry too much about the Jitter on I2S as there is no clock setting sent with the packages so any information will be reclocked and matched to your DAC which will then filter out the signal jitter . If it was me I would see how hard it is to get the I2S sent to HDMI and then give it a listen . I am sure that measured at the Pi end it may well not be ideal but if you measure the Output of the DAC things should be fine.

 

[bohemian]

I was picking Wammer brains at Kegworth, but I am getting terrible at remembering things.

I understand about adding something like a hifiberry digi+proto my pi, and the advantages of the two clocks.  However getting the I2S signal from that involves soldering something to 4 pins (or 3) then to an hdmi plug to put it into my dac.

I am in no wise a soldier and this sort of technical expertise is hard for me to envisage.  Has anyone a schematic, or a diagram, or photos of what I should be doing, or looking at?  There is no point in the digi+pro for me if I cannot get I2S out, because the usb from the pi is better for me than optical or spdif from the digi+.  I am playing dsd through the usb into my dac, but it will not take dsd through spdif or optical.

Any suggestions, guys?