QUAD ESL 63 Room positioning

[andreweast]

I'm just interested to hear from ESL 63 users about their room layouts. Thanks to Rob Holt, I have finally heard a really well set up pair of 63s and I liked them very much. However they were very close together in a small room. I would have them in a 12 x 15 room, firing from the short wall. I can easily do the 3 feet behind them that is required.

My question is about width. If I had them near the side walls, would they create a good central image? So we're talking about 5-6 feet between them, and about 8-9 feet to the listening position.

 

[RobHolt]

Hi Andrew,

Great to meet you yesterday.

The great man sadly cannot respond to your query but on the basis that he played flute in an orchestra and was used to natural sound staging, a picture tells a thousand words:



walkerroom by trebor1966, on Flickr

 

[TheMooN]

Looking Good Rob , mind you don't slip off that chair arm tho

 

[wizmax]

I moved in to my current flat 6 years ago and realised that at 29x11 feet it was as close to ideal for ESL's that I was ever going to get and thus began a happy journey. I have had 57's, 63's and currently 988's as the end part of my system and have enjoyed an increasingly better sound. In my lounge the speakers are 1/3rd of the way along the long wall and are as close to the side walls as they can be at only 74 inches apart and IMHO have found that listening at the apex of an equilateral triangle is as good as it gets, which is pretty damn good. I found that a great way to improve the sound of the 63's was to mount them on stands, I tried the George stands from One Thing Audio and the American Arcici stands filled with lead shot to give more rigidity. There is a very good review of the Arcici stands at http://www.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-arcici-quad-stands. I still have both sets of stands if you are interested

 

[Gizza]

Hello again Andrew, long time no speak. As a Quad 63/Gradient SW63 user, I am sure that 63's would work fine in your room and give you a good central image. Mine are about 88cm in from the side wall and about 1.3m forward fROM the wall behind them so haven't tried them against the side walls. I believe that the output from the rear of the speaker will have the biggest impact on the resulting sound. I also found that raising them up on suitably high stands ( e.g. the ones supplied by One Thing Audio) gives a big improvement.

I do have one question though, do you think that your orton amplifier will be powerful enough for the 63's? They are quite a heavy load for the amplifier partly because their impedance drops to 2ohms at higher frequencies.

If you do end up with a pair of 63's, then as wonderful as they are, I believe that they are better still when paired with the Gradient SW63's and accompanying active x-over, so this could be a future upgrade. If you're ever in my vicinity, you are very welcome indeed to hear my setup. The 63's on their own give a very pure sound. The addition of the Gradients give the soundstage extra depth and increase the dynamics of the sound.

 

[RobHolt]

Looking Good Rob , mind you don't slip off that chair arm tho

Oi, cheeky sod!

 

[andreweast]

I found that a great way to improve the sound of the 63's was to mount them on stands, I tried the George stands from One Thing Audio and the American Arcici stands filled with lead shot to give more rigidity. There is a very good review of the Arcici stands at http://www.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-arcici-quad-stands. I still have both sets of stands if you are interested

I'm quite certain you're right; Rob stressed this and had his on stands (incidentally he was looking a bit younger than in the photo he's posted when I popped round). I'd only ever heard 63s without stands before and had been underwhelmed, so clearly they are crucial. I'd certainly be interested in either pair of stands you have spare. I'll be in touch.

 

[andreweast]

I do have one question though, do you think that your orton amplifier will be powerful enough for the 63's? They are quite a heavy load for the amplifier partly because their impedance drops to 2ohms at higher frequencies. If you do end up with a pair of 63's, then as wonderful as they are, I believe that they are better still when paired with the Gradient SW63's and accompanying active x-over, so this could be a future upgrade.

Hi Gary, yes I would certainly look to get subs in the future if I stay on the 63 way. I wouldn't use the Orton. That is my spare amp - it's a lovely integrated but I don't think it would have the control. My main amps are the Unison Research Unico Pre and DM power amp - these are 160W mosfet/valve hybrids and they work in partial class A. I find them pretty versatile. The only speakers I've tried that they didn't really gel with were the La Scalas (since they are 104dB efficiency and the Unico Pre had too much gain).

I've got quite a few other amps in fact, and need to whittle down.

 

[gingermrkettle]

I suspect there are many ways to skin this particular cat. The setup in my new room has them along one of the long walls, well away from the side walls but with a good 2.5m between them and not much toe in. Radio 3 then put a string quartet in my room.

 

[Gizza]

I should have guessed that you had other amps! 160w per channel should give very nice results. I'm quite excited for you, should you go for the 63's. If it's a natural, open sound that you're after, then you'll love them. During the brief few months that I'd replaced my previous pair with Yamaha NS1000's, I came to really miss them, hence the purchase of my current pair but with the Gradients to allow them to play louder before the protection circuit kicks in. I think k I would struggle to find a better speaker, certainly without spending umpteen thousands of pounds. The only downside is a failing panel now and then, but its usually because of age. Once a panel has been replaced, the 'new' one should last many years. I liken it to maintaining a classic car. The initial purchase price of used 63's is laughably low anyway in my eyes. Oh, speaker cables - Quad's (and Tim De Paravacini's) recommendation of a fairly thick cable is a sensible one, as they need to cope with the current required. I've tried Ecosse, both stranded and solid core, Van Den Hul Revelation but now use the VDH on my Gradients and Audio Synthesis Silver Blue SP to the Quads, which gives me a great result. I almost shelled out on the Sanderson/Innersounds coaxial type cables to try, but as my cables are only 1 metre length, I anticipated that differences would be negligible, but on longer lengths I would like to have trued them.

Anyway, all the best and I shall watch your posts with anticipation!

Hi Gary, yes I would certainly look to get subs in the future if I stay on the 63 way. I wouldn't use the Orton. That is my spare amp - it's a lovely integrated but I don't think it would have the control. My main amps are the Unison Research Unico Pre and DM power amp - these are 160W mosfet/valve hybrids and they work in partial class A. I find them pretty versatile. The only speakers I've tried that they didn't really gel with were the La Scalas (since they are 104dB efficiency and the Unico Pre had too much gain).I've got quite a few other amps in fact, and need to whittle down.

 

[Werner]

My room is 7.3 x 4.1 m. The speakers and listener each are at almost (but not quite) 1/3rd down the length of the room. When moving in last year I had the speakers 1.3 m in front of the wall. It sounded crap: anaemic, confused, with a bias to the right channel. The latter presumably because that part of the room was (is) totally undamped, while the left at least had the window curtains.

Using a mixture of formal analysis, measurement with XTZ, and listening I arrived at the new position, with the speakers firing almost straight-on. Otherwise the balance between highs and lows is off. Interestingly I am now in process of modelling the room and ESLs in CARA, and its optimiser puts the speakers and listener in about the same positions.

Still not finished. Given time (oh, time!) the back wall corners will get custom bass traps + diffusors, the right wall a low combination of bass trap and CD storage, and the ceiling some absorption. That should do it.

 

[soulman]

My room is 18' by 11.5' and the speakers are 6' from the back wall and 6" in from the side walls. I slowly moved them around to find this position. Forgot to mention that they are on stands that raise them 44cm from the floor which puts the centre of the panel around 10cm above my ear when seated. I did this as I believe the dust cover direct sound marginally downward. After the bake-off people mentioned how well they hung voices and instruments in the space between them....

 

[Pussycat]

I went from a brief stay with 57s to 2905s (why compromise?), and I found that both could be positioned quite far apart with beneficial results. A few inches to side walls matters not a jot, it seems, but it's nice to get a good gap between for holographic and imaging results. I use 11 metre runs of Naim NAC A5 from E.A.R. valved monoblocs; very compatible.

 

[RobHolt]

I did this as I believe the dust cover direct sound marginally downward. After the bake-off people mentioned how well they hung voices and instruments in the space between them....

Yes the metal louvres are angled downward slightly. Tilting the 63 back a few degrees has similar effect to raising them higher from the floor.

Another alternative sometimes recommended is to rotate the metal grille 180deg. Not tried that but probably improves things in some rooms, especially if the 63 is placed directly onto the floor with a near-field listening position. The stands used by Werner (and me) have a slight tilt built in.

 

[Martha's dad]

There are a pair of metal stands on castors with clamps that tilt the ESL63's - but they also have rigid hold on the speakers and this really makes the 63's sound much better. I can't remember what they were called something like GFD; very expensive new, made by an engineering company, but they crop up for sale once in a while - make a very significant improvement indeed.

 

[andreweast]

Thanks for the replies all.

Nice room Werner - the minimalism really works with the 63s.

I just have a nagging concern now; transport. When I decide on a pair, how am I going to transport them? I did manage to get a pair of La Scalas in the back of my Honda Jazz - only just, and with the boot open. But ESLs are much more delicate instruments. Without boxes I think I would be stuck with lying them flat on top of each other, which seems very risky.

Has anyone any advice on how to move ESLs about?

 

[Gizza]

Could you not get one in vertically (but long side edge across the floor) behind the front seats? If your car is a hatch back you can lay the back seats down and put the other speaker flat. Also, I'd advise you to wrap them in bubble wrap or blankets to avoid snagging the cloth.

Thanks for the replies all. Nice room Werner - the minimalism really works with the 63s.

I just have a nagging concern now; transport. When I decide on a pair, how am I going to transport them? I did manage to get a pair of La Scalas in the back of my Honda Jazz - only just, and with the boot open. But ESLs are much more delicate instruments. Without boxes I think I would be stuck with lying them flat on top of each other, which seems very risky.

Has anyone any advice on how to move ESLs about?

 

[surayne]

I've moved them a few times by lying one flat, using a duvet or two on top and around it then placing the other on top so the "L" interlocks. As long as they don't slide about it's perfectly safe.

 

[fobo]

I have a pair of boxes you could borrow if you really are worried.