Quiet words of advice to newbies ( I might regret this)

[Minicoupeman]

After too many years to mention I feel emboldened to give a few words of advice to newcomers . I understand and encourage others to agree or argue with the following. 🤔😀🤔 This will be fun.

As the man who started Linn said. Rubbish in, rubbish out. It is a close call between your room and your source as to what had the most impact on SQ. Lets call it a tie. But the further up the tree you go, the more importance the room takes on.
Speaker position. Tidy, domestically acceptable speaker positioning will never release the best that your speakers can do. Play with them. Bring them out from the walls, toe them in ( or out) A very big difference between ‘proper’ positioning and what you think you have to do for domestic harmony will probably result a much better SQ. ( and divorce)
The influence of amplifiers is over rated. You will have to spend a lot to improve on your amplifier. You may find one that one sounds different but does it sound better? Clearly there a difference between a £1000 amplifier and a £10000 amplifier but it won’t be as great as the difference between a £1000 source and a £10000 source.
CD is limited to 16/44. Streaming from Qobuz or Tidal isn’t. Nor are LP’s.
A good Hi-Fi dealer is worth more than all of the copies of What Hi-Fi that have ever been printed.
Hi-Fi as a hobby will cost you😀

 

[tuga]

I agree with the last sentence, and most of the rest.

When it comes to source quality the mastering is significantly more important than the resolution. In my view and experience the difference between CD and high res is almost non-existent and the latter is only really worth pursuing if the mastering is better.

I find that the influence of amplifiers is underrated.

 

[Miller-8]

Remember that dynamic range of LPs is limited far more than CDs.

 

[montesquieu]

After too many years to mention I feel emboldened to give a few words of advice to newcomers . I understand and encourage others to agree or argue with the following. 🤔😀🤔 This will be fun.

As the man who started Linn said. Rubbish in, rubbish out. It is a close call between your room and your source as to what had the most impact on SQ. Lets call it a tie. But the further up the tree you go, the more importance the room takes on.
Speaker position. Tidy, domestically acceptable speaker positioning will never release the best that your speakers can do. Play with them. Bring them out from the walls, toe them in ( or out) A very big difference between ‘proper’ positioning and what you think you have to do for domestic harmony will probably result a much better SQ. ( and divorce)
The influence of amplifiers is over rated. You will have to spend a lot to improve on your amplifier. You may find one that one sounds different but does it sound better? Clearly there a difference between a £1000 amplifier and a £10000 amplifier but it won’t be as great as the difference between a £1000 source and a £10000 source.
CD is limited to 16/44. Streaming from Qobuz or Tidal isn’t. Nor are LP’s.
A good Hi-Fi dealer is worth more than all of the copies of What Hi-Fi that have ever been printed.
Hi-Fi as a hobby will cost you😀

Agree with a great deal of this but I think 'source first' is a fast way to a money pit.

Amplifiers are not all the same, certainly between the different topologies (single ended, push pull, Class D, valve and solid state, and so on); likewise speakers.

I actually tend to recommend people to start with the pairing of amplifier and speakers, rather than dive into spending money on fancy sources. There's no point trying to use 3 watts of single ended amp with Tannoys, likewise it's probably overkill in most cases to use 200 watts of solid state power with 104db sensitive single driver horns.

Once you have the amp and speakers working (ie, you found an overall feel that you like that gets the best out of the speakers), you can faff around adjusting source elements to your heart's content. But if you don't have the amp-speaker pairing right, it doesn't matter how much you fiddle with sources, it'll still sound compromised.

 

[rabski]

Best advice? Read everything you can. Ask and listen to everyone you can. Go to as many dealers and trade shows as you can.

Then ignore the bloody lot of 'em.

 

[Lawrence001]

OP's advice sounds like a reiteration of the source first Linn/flat earth mantra updated with a recognition of the role of the room (which I guess Linn also took on board with Space room optimisation). So basically the modern Linn view! (Unless they have dropped the "source first" advice in the interim I don't follow Linn closely so wouldn't be aware.)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I agree with all above but we all start with a copy of a Hifi magazine which we all got carried away with in buying things we read as advertising is very powerful tool .
You can waste a lot of money in this hobby making mistakes which i have made plenty myself over the years as sometimes heart rules brain and common sense .

 

[DomT]

Yes the room speaker combination is important. I always choose speakers that are the right size for the room and so maybe after eight different houses without room problems and only one with a problem maybe many rooms are actually benign?

Start with the speaker that you like as it’s such a personal thing. It’s important to choose the right amp to go with the speaker. I have three amps at home and one at a dealer for sale and they are all vastly different despite having similar specs (apart from one). I use an Audio Reseach preamp and have just swapped out an Audio Research power amp for a Quad 909 as the Quad is more gentle sounding which is better for nearfield; but would never choose the Quad for the lounge so it always just depends.

Turntables you need to spend a lot of money to improve quality. Best to spend on a good deck and arm first then a good cartridge. A better arm and table with a cheap cartridge is normally better than a cheaper deck and expensive cartridge. But it depends. I made a custom Lenco and preferred it with a £3k Dynavector cartridge to my £14k turntable with the same cartridge because I really like what idlers do ie lots of grunt despite not as much detail.

Digital can sound good these days. There is a difference between streamers and DACs but you don’t need to spend anywhere near as much as you do for a great turntable for something digital that’s great sounding.

All-in-ones sound ok but despite wanting to buy a Naim Nova the Naim separates at the same price we’re a lot better.

It’s worth visiting Wammers to hear different set ups. It’s better than at dealers as wammers have optimised their system to their room. One of my favourite wammer systems was way cheaper than the others that I heard. More money doesn’t necessarily buy what your preferences are. Find out your preferences as soon as you can to avoid swap box swapping.

Don’t be tempted by upgrading. There is always something better but upgrades can unbalance your system and so you will need to buy another piece to rebalance the mess that you made with the first upgrade.

Home demo for a couple of days at least if you can.

And cables can sound different.

 

[DiggyGun]

Advice sounds like a Linn/flat earth opinion updated with an understanding about the role of the room (which I guess Linn also took on board with Space room optimisation). So basically the modern Linn view! (Unless they have dropped the "source first" advice in the interim I don't follow Linn closely so wouldn't be aware.)

Linn’s philosophy is still, “source first”.

 

[lostwin]

I think Tuga is spot on in that the quality of the recorded media is most influential. To a large extent we are at the mercy of the producers (and recording budget) plus add in the impact of the ‘compression wars’ and the way that the majority access music on relatively lo fi equipment can make many recordings a bit of a lottery.

Secondly, browse through the From your Listening Chair thread. No two systems of users on here are alike, so don’t expect opinions to align. There is no right answer except the one that works for your ears.

 

[pmcuk]

I'm an amplifier guy, so for me the biggest difference is in the amp!

All the rest counts of course, but the amp + preamp is the heart of the system.

There's nothing I've heard better than a good single ended amp like a 2a3 or 300b with a good input stage.

Speakers come and go, and to my ears vary less than the amp unless you go to full length ribbons and planars.

 

[StingRay]

I don't agree that source is the most important with digital, with analogue maybe. Speakers are the most important and how they interact with the room. Amps can make a difference and so can active v passive.
A few on here have quite modest digital sources in fairly expensive systems.

Tuga's point about the music is a red herring, it is the same on all systems. What matters is how it sounds on different systems.

 

[Beobloke]

Remember that dynamic range of LPs is limited far more than CDs.

But yet LPs still sound better when done properly!

 

[TIU]

The main difference to me is owning a hifi system or not. You can ask Alexa to play songs all day.

 

[Miller-8]

But yet LPs still sound better when done properly!

Do they? More distortion.

 

[hearhere]

Yes the room speaker combination is important. I always choose speakers that are the right size for the room and so maybe after eight different houses without room problems and only one with a problem maybe many rooms are actually benign?

I think I probably agree more with Dom than most other contributors, although all are well argued.

No 1 in order of importance is the TYPE of speaker likely to suit the acoustics of your room. This is far more important than the brand, as some types may be much better (or worse) than others in your room. I learnt this to my cost a couple of years ago and had to re-sell a costly pair of speakers of the wrong type for my room. The type of speakers also affects some of the important features you can expect from the speakers - your favoured type of music, imaging, size of sweet spot, required distance from walls, etc. Once the type of speaker has been decided upon, then do what rabski suggests, but DON'T ignore it. Read ONLY reviews from respected reviewers / magazines (ignore most upstarts making Youtube reviews - and of course What HiFi)) and visit showrooms, shows, etc, but all this only to make a short list of possible speakers that MUST be home demo'd first.

Don't buy speakers that can't provide the bass you want. Adding subs is a bodge and thinking "I'll buy this affordable speaker now and add or sub or two in future if I need more bass” is not efficient or likely to give the quality of sound you hoped for initially.

Budget about 75% for your speakers if you are content with streaming. Including vinyl means you have to seriously compromise on everything else as a TT alone that will match or better streaming will gollop half your budget and you'll end up with mediocre speakers, etc

The right speakers (matched with your room) are essential and there are incredible differences. Once speakers are chosen, the amp will make some difference but a fraction of what the speakers add to music satisfaction. Home trial a number of carefully chosen short list amps and you may well be surprised that one amp wins out on your speakers rather unexpectedly and (if you are lucky) at much lower price than you feared! I auditioned 12 amps and chose one that was far from the costliest and much to my surprise it was a Class D.

The source device may be virtually free (if streaming from Qobuz or Tidal), but colossally costly if vinyl is required that will match the SQ of streaming. Unless you are spending a huge sum on your hi-fi, avoid vinyl. CD isn't costly if all you need is a transport - ie your amp includes a DAC. As streaming offers everything you have in your CD collection (and you don't need to leave you chair to change the disc), think hard about investing in CD playback. If you really want this (as I thought I did) then get a CD player than can alternatively rip your CDs and store them on its internal hard drives. I have such a device but rarely use it in favour of streaming.

So that's me done - buy the very best speakers that you can afford that offer the sound quality (including bass) that you need (75% or so of budget) and spend the rest of your budget on an amp and streamer. There are a few first class all-in-ones around (25% of budget) that will not limit the potential of the costly speakers.

Bonus of this plan - no cables, no extra cabinets, amps and drivers (in subs) to have to pay for and no loss of floor space so improved WAF. In 5 years, maybe update the all-in-one to latest technology, or even go to separates if you really think these will better a top all-in-one. But your well-chosen speakers will still be offering thrilling sounds in 15-20 years.

 

[bigrod]

I was very fortunate to have great mentors in my early years .the mantra was ,,,.quality ,does it stand your hairs up . is it efficient and easy to use , is it a fair price , you’re style .. .. If you think the item your buying has all five buy it ,, if not your compromising ..!! Be prepared for mistakes
Bit like everything in life really ..
Divorce is expensive …
In some cases people have spent their lives bringing music and equipment to us .. give them a chance and don’t dismiss out of hand “
Professing to be wise we become fools “

As far as we know this is it , there is a time for serious and a time for play ..
,, make the best of your chances , ..

One gentleman I knew very well once said to me
If you can’t do it in 8 hrs your not doing it right or in the wrong job
Love everybody doesn’t mean liking everybody.

 

[TIU]

Do they? More distortion.

Life has distortion.

 

[m7rso]

Well I agree with a lot of what you say. I have quite a few amps and i can tell each of them through my speakers And none of them are similar.
But if I had to give advice to a newbie it would be…
1. do not shoehorn the largest speakers you can into your room
2. a turntable/arm/cartridge is as much hassle on its own as the rest of the system put together
3. If your speakers need to be extremely loud in your room to sing, change the speakers
4. Room dampening is well worth the expenditure
5. vary the music you listen to or you will end up with a system that plays one type of music very well but the remainder will be mediocre.
6. Bass is more important than you think
7. listen to lots of different live bands to get an idea of what live music actually sounds like.
8 if the sound you have is exactly what you like, don't listen to anyone else's opinion.

i am sure there are more…another is, place your speakers with your eyes and ears, not with a tape measure.

 

[rabski]

Serious answer?

Every bit of the system is important, but a decent pair of speakers that work properly in your room is absolutely crucial. Get a pair of speakers that don't work properly in your room, and everything will sound poor no matter how good it is.

Amplifiers, preamplifiers, DACs, CD players and phono stages are important once the speaker/room combination is correct, but sorry, IME they're far less important.

My speakers still sound bloody good with a £25 amp. My system would not sound decent with a £25 pair of speakers. Though it would sound decent with a £25 CD player.

YMMV.