Quiet words of advice to newbies ( I might regret this)

savvypaul

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If you're a newbie to hi-fi, don't get into vinyl unless you already own plenty of it.

If you're a newbie to The WAM, learn who to ignore.

The 3 most important things to get right are speakers, speakers...and speakers.
 

hearhere

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I understand what the OP (& others) are trying to help with but just because someone is a 'newbie' to this site doesn't mean they are new to hifi.
But the OP is aslking for advice from the more experienced to be offered to newbies in the audio game - not new to this forum!
 

DomT

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My only advice is that your hi fi hobby should be about taking pleasure from hearing recorded music in your chosen environment, and also it’s about remembering that hobbies are meant to be fun - not a place for anxieties and soul-searching notions of sonic perfection.

Your ‘Good enough‘ is most likely a level of fidelity that is probably still better than 99% of the population experiences when they enjoy their music via an iPhone speaker.
Sure but hobbies normally mean going down the rabbit hole whether it’s cars, golf, tennis, watches, skiing, cooking etc. We have 60 cook books we regularly use and it’s great fun. We need to import ingredients and have started making our own Middle Eastern spice mixes as we cant find ingredients here in Portugal. We are much more obsessed with food than HiFi (equipment - not music)
 
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Chumpchops

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Sure but hobbies normally mean going down the rabbit hole whether it’s cars, golf, tennis, watches, skiing, cooking etc. We have 60 cook books we regularly use and it’s great fun. We need to import ingredients and have started making our own Middle Eastern spice mixes as we cant find ingredients here in Portugal. We are much more obsessed with food than HiFi (equipment - not music)

Yes, my point was exactly that, but to better phrase it using the rabbit hole analogy - you do not really want to go too far down that hole as that’s where may lay the anxieties that can detract from the pleasures, or you may get completely lost in the warren, so much so that you can’t actually find your way back to where you started.

Interesting that you interchange hobby with obsession. In my mind they are different

Scraped from Quora, but apt imo:
<<
A hobby is a healthy way to pass some free time, and to relieve some of the day-to-day stress.

An obsesion is something else entirely. It can be seen as an extreme form of a hobby, but AFAIK an obsession is unhealthy and can consume all your time and give you even more stress than you need.>>

Others refer to Hobby Obsessive disorder as a faction of ADHD, ie a disorder illness:

<<What is obsessive hobby disorder? The ADHD tendency to hobby-bounce sometimes combines with hyperfocus to morph innocent pastimes into obsessions. Some of us can't do things halfway; we have to jump in with both feet. We throw ourselves all in, whether it's in crafting or exercising or cooking.>>.

….or hi fi in our case.

So my comments about ‘fun’ and ‘good enough’ to me are pretty good arbiters of a hi fi hobby, but maybe not a hi fi obsession
 

Chumpchops

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Well that clears that up then.......The best advice is to ignore this lot and just enjoy the music.
…or just be selective but in accordance with yer own peccadilloes, if you know what they are. If not the rabbit hole awaits!
 

Idlewithnodrive

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For me, it's transducers first (speakers to room, cartridge to arm) then media inputs, followed by amp, then wires and supports etc.

Add a quiet room, being in the right mood and your beverage of choice and life simply doesn't get much better.
 
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hearhere

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Well that clears that up then.......The best advice is to ignore this lot and just enjoy the music.
Ah, but will the newbie this thread is intended to help, really enjoy it if he's bought the wrong kit? I support the discussion even if a few tangents are gone off at!
 
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DomT

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Yes, my point was exactly that, but to better phrase it using the rabbit hole analogy - you do not really want to go too far down that hole as that’s where may lay the anxieties that can detract from the pleasures, or you may get completely lost in the warren, so much so that you can’t actually find your way back to where you started.

Interesting that you interchange hobby with obsession. In my mind they are different

Scraped from Quora, but apt imo:
<<
A hobby is a healthy way to pass some free time, and to relieve some of the day-to-day stress.

An obsesion is something else entirely. It can be seen as an extreme form of a hobby, but AFAIK an obsession is unhealthy and can consume all your time and give you even more stress than you need.>>

Others refer to Hobby Obsessive disorder as a faction of ADHD, ie a disorder illness:

<<What is obsessive hobby disorder? The ADHD tendency to hobby-bounce sometimes combines with hyperfocus to morph innocent pastimes into obsessions. Some of us can't do things halfway; we have to jump in with both feet. We throw ourselves all in, whether it's in crafting or exercising or cooking.>>.

….or hi fi in our case.

So my comments about ‘fun’ and ‘good enough’ to me are pretty good arbiters of a hi fi hobby, but maybe not a hi fi obsession
Obsession can indeed have a negative aspect to it but I think that we have a healthy obsession with cooking and HiFi merely a hobby.

When I think of some people on here I think that they are clearly in the hobby camp, some in the healthy obsession camp and some in the deranged obsessive camp. It would be unkind to start to put people in groups though as one person’s hobby is another’s deranged obsession!!
 
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ziggy

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IME a system is only as good as it's weakest link, be it source, amplification or speakers. I don't think any one is of overriding importance. That said the interaction of the speakers to the room is.
 

rdale

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My best advice would be to buy an all in one, all active system such as one of the KEF range - LSX, LS50 wireless or LS60, along with a suitable pair of subwoofers. Then spend about a third the budget on acoustic treatment, installed by an expert if the service was available.

Don’t buy an equipment stand, excess amounts of cables, cones, spikes etc like most of us love.
 
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pmcuk

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My speakers still sound bloody good with a £25 amp. My system would not sound decent with a £25 pair of speakers.
My speakers cost me £17 the pair - early Wharfedale Pro Diamonds with a mid-bass just like the B110 with a slightly smaller magnet. I auditioned them against Kef LS50 Meta and ATC SCM7s and they were very close, with more life than the ATC speakers, which were rather dull sounding. The Kefs were good in the mids and down but the treble was too edgy for long term listening. So I was happy to stay with the Diamonds. Some of the classic 2-way speakers are surprisingly good even today and well worth seeking out. You just have to have some idea of which of the vast array of discontinued speakers were the really good designs. That can save you a lot of money.

In my system it's the amplification which makes the good sound. Systems vary!
 
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Volley24

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I think I probably agree more with Dom than most other contributors, although all are well argued.

No 1 in order of importance is the TYPE of speaker likely to suit the acoustics of your room. This is far more important than the brand, as some types may be much better (or worse) than others in your room. I learnt this to my cost a couple of years ago and had to re-sell a costly pair of speakers of the wrong type for my room. The type of speakers also affects some of the important features you can expect from the speakers - your favoured type of music, imaging, size of sweet spot, required distance from walls, etc. Once the type of speaker has been decided upon, then do what rabski suggests, but DON'T ignore it. Read ONLY reviews from respected reviewers / magazines (ignore most upstarts making Youtube reviews - and of course What HiFi)) and visit showrooms, shows, etc, but all this only to make a short list of possible speakers that MUST be home demo'd first.

Don't buy speakers that can't provide the bass you want. Adding subs is a bodge and thinking "I'll buy this affordable speaker now and add or sub or two in future if I need more bass” is not efficient or likely to give the quality of sound you hoped for initially.

Budget about 75% for your speakers if you are content with streaming. Including vinyl means you have to seriously compromise on everything else as a TT alone that will match or better streaming will gollop half your budget and you'll end up with mediocre speakers, etc

The right speakers (matched with your room) are essential and there are incredible differences. Once speakers are chosen, the amp will make some difference but a fraction of what the speakers add to music satisfaction. Home trial a number of carefully chosen short list amps and you may well be surprised that one amp wins out on your speakers rather unexpectedly and (if you are lucky) at much lower price than you feared! I auditioned 12 amps and chose one that was far from the costliest and much to my surprise it was a Class D.

The source device may be virtually free (if streaming from Qobuz or Tidal), but colossally costly if vinyl is required that will match the SQ of streaming. Unless you are spending a huge sum on your hi-fi, avoid vinyl. CD isn't costly if all you need is a transport - ie your amp includes a DAC. As streaming offers everything you have in your CD collection (and you don't need to leave you chair to change the disc), think hard about investing in CD playback. If you really want this (as I thought I did) then get a CD player than can alternatively rip your CDs and store them on its internal hard drives. I have such a device but rarely use it in favour of streaming.

So that's me done - buy the very best speakers that you can afford that offer the sound quality (including bass) that you need (75% or so of budget) and spend the rest of your budget on an amp and streamer. There are a few first class all-in-ones around (25% of budget) that will not limit the potential of the costly speakers.

Bonus of this plan - no cables, no extra cabinets, amps and drivers (in subs) to have to pay for and no loss of floor space so improved WAF. In 5 years, maybe update the all-in-one to latest technology, or even go to separates if you really think these will better a top all-in-one. But your well-chosen speakers will still be offering thrilling sounds in 15-20 years.
Could you tell me what CD player you have that Rips to its own hard drive? I'm looking for something like that and choices seem limited / non existent.. Thanks in advance!
 
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Jubal

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I am 100% sure this thread is intended as helpful advice and not condescension but isn’t half the fun of a hobby about finding out for yourself? I’ve done it countless times, mountain bikes, trackday cars, jet skis, boats, computers, motorbikes, and so on. All money pits and all full of subjective opinions you could listen to or not.

Admittedly, the OP is bang on but the lingering doubt always remains on “what if?”! I don’t know if I prefer that or the regret of a mistaken purchase.
 

hearhere

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Could you tell me what CD player you have that Rips to its own hard drive? I'm looking for something like that and choices seem limited / non existent.. Thanks in advance!
Yes, you're right, there's virtually nothing that does all these things.

I used to have the very excellent RipNAS from Ripcaster in Reading, that rips CDs to its built-in hard drive. However that was all it did and the CD slot started playing up. I wanted to PLAY CDs too so I kept the Mark Levinson 390S player I'd had for years. The death of the ripper prompted a search for a device that would play CDs, rip CDs and store the files on internal hard drives. There was a very costly French Metronome or the NAD M50.2. I went for the latter. It does all these tasks (rips to twin RAID drives for some degree of safety) and it also includes a Roon-ready streamer. What it doesn't have is a DAC, but I had this elsewhere.

The 50.2 is a great bit of kit, although I doubt it's a top seller in the NAD Master Series. I believe T&A now offer a similar beast, but doubtless at twice the price of the NAD. If interested, I'd look around for a good used one as the 50.2 has been around for some years now, though still a current model. Peter
 

Warszawa

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Remember that dynamic range of LPs is limited far more than CDs.
The great irony is that you can't get away with as much dynamic range compression when mastering for vinyl, so for many new releases, the vinyl release has greater dynamic range than the CD.
 
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Miller-8

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The great irony is that you can't get away with as much dynamic range compression when mastering for vinyl, so for many new releases, the vinyl release has greater dynamic range than the CD.
Not true. Most vinyl uses the same mastering as CD.
 

Warszawa

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Not true. Most vinyl uses the same mastering as CD.
I'm aware of that, but have seen interviews with vinyl cutting engineers and they often have to do something with the digital file to make it work for the medium. There's a case in point here: https://fatasfunk.com/2020/08/21/using-digital-masters-for-vinyl/ It seems that even if a brickwalled CD master is handed to the engineer, "a little restoration can be done".

My experience is that if a new digital release is very "loud", the vinyl version is an easier listen. I guess it's not a case of it having higher dynamic range though.
 

uzzy

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The influence of amplifiers is over rated
I beg to disagree. I recently tried a Nord Amp, well reviewed and well specified. Hooked it up and my missus came in and said "what is wrong with the hifi, it isn't sounding as good as it normally does".

Now if her indoors can note such a difference then believe me it exists and is significant.

First off it is vital to ensure the amp you have is capable of driving the speakers you have (so if your speakers have are sub 4ohm make sure your amp can handle it, If your speakers are inefficient make sure it has enough power on tap or you will run to clipping and burn out the tweeters) and they do have an impact on the sound so make sure you get your ears around it with the same speaker combination.
 

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