Replacing MF M6PRX to Class A. Any thoughts?

S

skyman

Guest
Currently bi-amping using 2 MF 8700 mono blocks to the lower end and an M6 PRX dual mono to the top. B&W 802 Diamonds. The base department is exactly where I want it but would like to refine the mids and top end further and considering replacing the M6 PRX with AMS 35p or something in the class A line. Any thoughts suggestions?

 

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
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Feb 3, 2013
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Laurie
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If you can find one second hand the Vitus ss010 is a sublime class A power or two input integrated, it's watts go a awful long way. Rich fluid slightly warm, masses of detail, good imaging. Heavy, 37kg

Really miss mine, but as always audio is a journey of exploration. It's sale got me the Berning pre, so worth it.

 
S

skyman

Guest
If you can find one second hand the Vitus ss010 is a sublime class A power or two input integrated, it's watts go a awful long way. Rich fluid slightly warm, masses of detail, good imaging. Heavy, 37kgReally miss mine, but as always audio is a journey of exploration. It's sale got me the Berning pre, so worth it.
Thanks Frizzy..Im googling it now.

 
S

skyman

Guest
On the same thread is there anyone out there who can explain to me , in layman's terms please, how low power in class A circuitry relates to the solid state power wattage output specs on amps? Im currently (pardon the pun) having difficulty in correlating how a 35 watt, for example, class A amp can deliver the power to match the like of my MF7900 700 watt amps. Fell free to call me thick but ill appreciate it and respect those who go easy on men here. Thanks in advance.

 
S

skyman

Guest
Frizzy...with your knowledge of the Vitus and considering I want a dual mono to drive the top end only of my speakers do you consider that the vitus will be delicate and yet detailed enough. Im looking for transparency and delicate musical expression with air and refinement. Would you grace me with your opinion please?

 

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
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Feb 3, 2013
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Hi sky, the Vitus really is that old adage of iron fist, velvet glove. It's tonal qualities are almost valve like, but with a truly extended top end. The excellent imaging I think is due to its magical mids, and its massive in house transformers adds real grip.

to be honest, new, they may well be overpriced, 12k or so, 2nd hand about 6 or 7k I think.

i sold mine for same as bought so hold value.

It was deathly quiet in use, filtering not recommended or needed, and it carried a tune with real insight and a very sweet treble, never harsh.

As I said one of the few components I truly regret having to sell.

it does have separate stacked transformers, but I am not sure at which point it becomes dual mono, tech is not my thing.

give one a listen and enjoy, they have excellent on line reviews, but there is a element of designer packaging in cost. In the flesh they look very cool though. Remote is stupidly expensive.

 
S

skyman

Guest
Oh no - seems like you bought the wrong speakers! ;-)
Not at all..and to expand further...the 802's have done such a remarkable job of achieving the improvements i wanted over the 803 and has revealed that there is so much more to be obtained from the bi-amp arrangement i currently have in place. I see the benefits of bi-amping mainly to be that one can be selective, varied and adaptive to the amplification qualities and where you place them IE: top or bottom. While many wont agree i think that amps can rarely be masters of all and moreover they are a compromise to suit the driving requirements of top, mid and base. I have played around extensively swapping the 8700 monos top to bottom and M6PRX top to bottom. The monos certainly do a terrific job of holding the big bottom end together while allowing it to breath and flow with progressions. I have recently compared my PRX driving the top end to a class A amp which is way out of my reach financially but it has demonstrated how much more can be sapped out of these speakers...hence my quest to now investigate the possibilities. Regardless of what i find the 802 has surpassed my expectations by a long way but its clear they have much yet to give but that will require input for realistic output.

Jerry, i did listen extensively to the MBL's in Germany and Austria and yes they are quite extraordinary, almost surreal and on first hearing I was hooked but after a few hours doubts were creeping in i knew that after a few weeks id be wanting to re-explore. Great speakers but in my quest of wanting as close to a stage performance as possible i can understand why many recording studios have B&W in place. They are not the best out there by a long shot but pound for pound and with the right amps behind them (hence this post) they can be very very good. They get a lot of bad press i know but at the end of the day its what I hear and hence what I bought.

 
S

skyman

Guest
Anyone have experience of the MF AMS 35p. Seems like a logical possibility in my set up for the tope end while retaining the 8700 monos on the bottom.

 

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
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I wonder sometimes why B&W are given such a hard time. Is there range too wide, snobbery, or is it the English tall poppy syndrome.

i may not have loved any I owned, but respect for a company that makes world class products that do what they are designed to do. And still made here, shame on those that went Asia mad and now look like echoes of past glories, wharfdale et al.

 
S

skyman

Guest
I wonder sometimes why B&W are given such a hard time. Is there range too wide, snobbery, or is it the English tall poppy syndrome.i may not have loved any I owned, but respect for a company that makes world class products that do what they are designed to do. And still made here, shame on those that went Asia mad and now look like echoes of past glories, wharfdale et al.
Seconded..thirded and avidly supported! Nice one.

 

unintended1

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Keith
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You can't just use any 2 power amps to bi-amp. They need to have the same amount of gain or you will end up with the bass and the mid/treble at different volumes to each other. If I were you I'd stick to 1 power amp (or a pair of monos) and connect just that to the speakers. You don't need to bi-amp - simply choose the right amp in the 1st place.

Unless the gain is exactly the same - which is unlikely - the MF on the bass and the Vitus on the mid/treble is just going to be wrong.

 
S

skyman

Guest
You can't just use any 2 power amps to bi-amp. They need to have the same amount of gain or you will end up with the bass and the mid/treble at different volumes to each other. If I were you I'd stick to 1 power amp (or a pair of monos) and connect just that to the speakers. You don't need to bi-amp - simply choose the right amp in the 1st place. Unless the gain is exactly the same - which is unlikely - the MF on the bass and the Vitus on the mid/treble is just going to be wrong.
Yes, i understand and agree and hence my question regarding the MF AMS 35. All MF amps are gain matched and in my current set up it is proven in the matching between the 8700 and PRX. I dont essentially agree with the concept of bi amping being fruitless as no one amp (or rarely) will you find one which is a master of all trades. It depends on what one is striving to achieve. As in my above post the evidence speaks for itself in the experimenting ive done using different amps on the top/bottom. So far Ive not yet found one which will deliver in all departments. More specifically & back to my question regarding the AMS being a replacement to the M6PRX..anyone out there with experience of this amp?

 

unintended1

Wammer
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Oct 13, 2006
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Yes, i understand and agree and hence my question regarding the MF AMS 35. All MF amps are gain matched and in my current set up it is proven in the matching between the 8700 and PRX. I dont essentially agree with the concept of bi amping being fruitless as no one amp (or rarely) will you find one which is a master of all trades. It depends on what one is striving to achieve. As in my above post the evidence speaks for itself in the experimenting ive done using different amps on the top/bottom. So far Ive not yet found one which will deliver in all departments. More specifically & back to my question regarding the AMS being a replacement to the M6PRX..anyone out there with experience of this amp?
I can't offer any experience of the AMS but from what I have read it is a very good performer with the type of refined top end you are looking for. So as they are gain matched and bi-amping is something you want to pursue then I'd try to get a demo and take it from there.

 

Flakstar

Wammer
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May 22, 2013
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Try the MF Primo. It will allow you to retain all that you like but also give you what you feel is missing. AS long as you are prepared to replace the M6 PRX

 
S

skyman

Guest
Try the MF Primo. It will allow you to retain all that you like but also give you what you feel is missing. AS long as you are prepared to replace the M6 PRX
Ive heard that the Primo is pretty special...are you suggesting it will require the PRX also to be replaced with the AMS?

 

Flakstar

Wammer
New Wammer
May 22, 2013
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Berkshire
I would keep with your M8700M x 2 and replace the M8 PRE with the Primo. That would work beautifully. Sorry didn't read the post fully.

Try it with and without the M6 PRX in the configuration. The M8700M's have enough power for the 802's.

 

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