Requesting advice regarding a possible turntable replacement or upgrade

uzzy

Grumpy Old Git
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I'd like a little more pitch stability and, hopefully, a bit less background noise from records.

Specifications


Drive method: belt drive

Motor: 16-pole AC synchronous

Platter: 300mm, 2.7kg

Speeds: 33 and 45rpm

Wow and flutter: 0.05%

Fumble: 75dB

Dimensions: 430 x 360 x 150mm

If you have a problem with pitch stability it could mean you need a new belt - because there is no way the human ear could detect a wow and flutter of 0.05% which was the measured spec on a new unit.  It is unlikely the motor is playing about as in my experience they either work or the stop working but perhaps other Wammers have experienced differently and will post summat.  Some pressings can have the center hole slightly off center which will affect pitch stability so check if the problem is happening on all recordings or just some - if just some then it is probably the recording.

A quick check would be to find a strobe (you can google them and print them out) and with a standard incandescent lamp (or halogen one) check the turntable speed. https://www.soundsclassic.com/ttsdteg.html   The dotted lines should appear stationary when the turntable is bang on speed - fluctuations in speed will result in the dotted lines appear to turn clockwise or anticlockwise.

As to hum - that has to be down to the cartridge and or the earthing on your turntable.  Try running an earth wire from the chassis to the earth point on the back of your amp. The easiest way is to find a nut that fits the suspension bolts and wrap a wire around it and secure by turning the new nut to clamp up to the existing one then run the wire out the back and down to the amp with the signal leads).

Other wammers may have some ideas on curing the hum problem.

Too many people want you to buy the same as they have (it is almost like having a club to reinforce your belief or lack of belief that you need support).  As you say let your ears do the judging.

It is a fine turntable - and you have a fine cartridge on it too .. enjoy 

 

lostwin

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Many thanks. A thought-provoking post full of wise words.

When I look at my kit, the Thorens is the oldest piece by far. Everything else has been changed for the better at least once and it's time, therefore, to work out whether or not I should change my turntable as well.

I'd like a little more pitch stability and, hopefully, a bit less background noise from records. I'd also like better resolution and imaging, plus a little more openness, and I wonder whether or not these will all improve if the basic turntable itself is better.

I don't want to lose musicality or timing, and I don't want to lose the occasional "Wow!" moments that vinyl gives me. These are "Wow!" moments that set my heart a-flutter and not the wows that accompany flutter.  (Sorry! I had to get that in before anyone else did. :( )

I've received a lot of opinions across two forums, with many posters either promoting their own favourite decks or at least saying that I need a change.

I've been told that my arm and cart are gooduns and also that I could do far better. I've had posters telling me that the Thorens is great and that I should change the arm and cart, and then I've had others who say that the Thorens is outclassed by Michell or Nottingham Analogue or Origin Live or etc. etc..

So right now it's time to let my ears do the talking.

Will I hear a great difference with the Ace Spacedeck or will the difference be discernible but a long way from being worth the £1,500 lay out?

If the latter then do I spend the balance of my budget plus any eBay proceeds on, perhaps, some tweaks such as a power supply or a different arm or cart or whatever, or do I say "It's not worth it given how relatively little I play vinyl now that I have a Bluesound Vault 2 and an Audio Note DAC 0.1x to keep me amused?"

If the new TT is noticeably better then will I start playing more vinyl?

Right now, I have no answers, but it'll be fun to get some.
You have certain had lots of advice - sometimes conflicting, but that just reflects the different flavours that are possible from a TT. You are doing exactly the right thing in demoing an option and I would recommend that you don't just keep it to one option but try to get to hear two or three more as well before deciding. 

One of the first responses talked about direct Drive (Technics) or an idler drive deck (Gerrard or similar).  When you described your musical taste and how you like to listen to music - the 'boogie factor' being high on your list, that is what they have in spades. I would definitely try to get your ears around one of these as well.

 
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rabski

Everything in moderation
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You have certain had lots of advice - sometimes conflicting, but that just reflects the different flavours that are possible from a TT. You are doing exactly the right thing in demoing an option and I would recommend that you don't just keep it to one option but try to get to hear two or three more as well before deciding. 

One of the first responses talked about direct Drive (Technics) or an idler drive deck (Gerrard or similar).  When you described your musical taste and how you like to listen to music - the 'boogie factor' being high on your list, that is what they have in spades. I would definitely try to get your ears around one of these as well.
Excellent advice.

One thing at a time too. I would strongly suggest sticking at least with the 1042 until you've made other changes. It's a more than capable cartridge.

 
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graham67

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the 166 is a decent deck, with better pace than the 160.  It responded really well to an audio technica OC 9 MC cart.

However, for rapid disc changes its bouncy chassis is far from ideal. I would to be looking at technics with its instant start up and rock solid speed.

your rb250 will be greatly improved by a rewire, johnny at audio origami made a great job of one i sent him.

 

eatapeach

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Richard
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the 166 is a decent deck, with better pace than the 160.  It responded really well to an audio technica OC 9 MC cart.

However, for rapid disc changes its bouncy chassis is far from ideal. I would to be looking at technics with its instant start up and rock solid speed.

your rb250 will be greatly improved by a rewire, johnny at audio origami made a great job of one i sent him.
This.  As lostwin also said, rapid changes of vinyl, to me, don’t naturally sit with a suspended or belt driven deck. That’s my overriding impression from what you told us about how you use the tt......not sitting to listen to an album but djing and the boogie factor and comparing pressings.  I would certainly try a technics.  I’m not a technics owner btw I have a systemdek IIx and Rega P3 and can’t think how it would be good for what you want to do.

if I was going to change turntables at this stage I’d be looking at technics....

 
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wizmax

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As the owner of an SP10 and a 1210 I would certainly endorse the recommendation of a Technics, either a second hand one to which you could fit your existing RB250 (rewired or not) and 1042 or a new 1210 which would be well within your budget. If you fancy a trip to the seaside you are more than welcome to bring you Thorens down and try it against my 1210 with rewired RB250 using your 1042 on both to give you an idea of what the differences are.

 
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Sotosound

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This.  As lostwin also said, rapid changes of vinyl, to me, don’t naturally sit with a suspended or belt driven deck. That’s my overriding impression from what you told us about how you use the tt......not sitting to listen to an album but djing and the boogie factor and comparing pressings.  I would certainly try a technics.  I’m not a technics owner btw I have a systemdek IIx and Rega P3 and can’t think how it would be good for what you want to do.

if I was going to change turntables at this stage I’d be looking at technics....
To be honest, the time that I was in a hurry to switch records was when I was a mobile DJ. Sometimes avoiding an embarrassing silence was a skin-of-the-teeth thing. Even now, I occasionally still have an anxiety dream wherein I'm unable to choose the next record in time.

Happily, those days are gone, however, and I just want something that sounds good, is relatively easy to use, and doesn't require loads of upkeep. It also needs to be something that has the potential for upgrades instead of being the endpoint.

So, I don't need the instant start-up of a DD turntable. Even as a DJ I didn't have DD decks. Also, I can cope with or without suspension, although the Gyrodec does seem a lot more bouncy than my Thorens - almost offputtingly so. (Did someone mention pylons? :) )

Let's see how I get on with the Ace Spacedeck....

 

Sotosound

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As the owner of an SP10 and a 1210 I would certainly endorse the recommendation of a Technics, either a second hand one to which you could fit your existing RB250 (rewired or not) and 1042 or a new 1210 which would be well within your budget. If you fancy a trip to the seaside you are more than welcome to bring you Thorens down and try it against my 1210 with rewired RB250 using your 1042 on both to give you an idea of what the differences are.
Many thanks for the offer. :)

 

eatapeach

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Richard
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.

Happily, those days are gone, however, and I just want something that sounds good, is relatively easy to use, and doesn't r? :) )

Let's see how I get on with the Ace Spacedeck....
Pls keep us updated....for me vinyl is maintenance mode now for existing records rather than primary source as it once was.  And after struggling to get a slow running rega going again (a combo of belt/ capacitor/oil no less) I’m more inclined to take the dd route in future.

cheers

 

Lee M

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Ignore me. 

 
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Timbo21

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One of the first responses talked about direct Drive (Technics) or an idler drive deck (Gerrard or similar).  When you described your musical taste and how you like to listen to music - the 'boogie factor' being high on your list, that is what they have in spades. I would definitely try to get your ears around one of these as well.
Technics are great for swapping out records quickly, quick start/stop, flip a 45 on, then a 33, etc

I've just moved form a Technics SL1200G to a Rega RP10. I wouldn't say Technics has a better 'boogie' factor sound-wise. Looks and build, yes. The RP10 is way more musical. I recorded needle drops to compare, and the RP10 really offers more texture, better tone, dynamics and bounces along effortlessly more then the Technics. Belt drive is definitely a different user experience tho. Technics really are great to use, but a lot of electronics inside. The RP10 is very pure/minimalist and that translates to the sound.

 

Sotosound

Wammer
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Aug 27, 2014
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Buckinghamshire
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Ian
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Pls keep us updated....for me vinyl is maintenance mode now for existing records rather than primary source as it once was.  And after struggling to get a slow running rega going again (a combo of belt/ capacitor/oil no less) I’m more inclined to take the dd route in future.

cheers
Will do.   :)  

 

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