room treatment

[sonrock]

My dear Sirs

Thank you very much for all of your suggestions and advices regarding keep the might Magico Q5 and treat my small room (nearly 4m wide and 5m long) then enjoin the music. Actually this is what I want too, as clearly stated, I will downsize the system only in case I cant do anything to make the situation better after trying all the solutions.

At the moment, I have 2 pairs of panels for bass traps and they are sitting on the rear wall, a pair of corner bass traps which is standing on the front corners near the q5. However, in several recordings I still see the bass is too much, boomy and vibration. I am looking for another pair or two of bass traps which can absorb very low frequency below 100hz properly - something I read they call Helmholtz boxes - then I will try other solutions as room measurement etc - I have to say I am too busy and not in the mood to try them now, should be better when the time is right for me.

My room is in an awkward shape where a huge chimney breast block my right speakers, also the granite step on the fireplace. So its very annoying to solve this situation. More ridiculous when I have a Rel Studo 3 sub in the room :doh: , I love its capability to shake the house when watching movies, but its Huge and I have no better place to locate it after trying many times, and now its ending up on the left side wall-front corner next to my left speaker.

For my very first question, could you please advise me how to relocate the speakers and equipment in my room? For my second question, could you please let me know where I can find the Helmholtz bass traps? As I said, I found Vicoustic Super Extreme Bass - they state it is similarly designed as Helmholtz box - but dont know. Have any of you Sirs tried them before and the results?

Many thanks and best regards,

T

 

[lee1975]

Rip the fire place out and the Granite step. This would give you more space around the speakers. Or just move house and look for a house with a nice big room.

 

[tuga]

A drawing with measurements would help.

Cheers,

R

 

[sonrock]

I will take some pics later Sir

 

[sonrock]

Jake Sir just suggested me to use some hi-tech kit for room treatment. It will automatically adjust the bass to fit in my room. Just adding this one between pre-pow with another pair of ic after running some measurements then its done.

if I am not wrong, there is another type of hi-tech for room measurement as well. It will measure your room and tell you where the bass is most serious then you will add bass traps there. Am I correct Sirs?

 

[delirio]

Why dont you try to ask http://www.rpgeurope.com/ and see if they can send you someone to do proper measuraments and suggest you what to use and where exactly?

 

[Purite Audio]

The problem I found was the amount of foam you need ( all around the room ) to absorb low frequencies, I believe to be effective you need enough foam to absorb a quarter of the wave length which is causing the problem.

As a first step I would acoustically measure the room, so you know exactly the where the problem lies.

Keith.

 

[bmtell]

If you have spent the sort of money you seem to have done on hifi it is worth getting a consultant to visit you and help you solve any issues. You will get a better solution than randomly sticking acoustic panels in room room.

If you are just suffering with bass issues then try an Antimode. A couple of dealers on here sell them. I tried one and liked it a lot.

 

[khfm865]

You could try a Trinnov - there were some very favourable reports from Munich on the efficacy of this device.

http://www.trinnov.com/products/high-end/st2-hifi/introduction-hifi/?lang=en_us

 

[scruffybitch]

turn the sub down, cover it with cushions and sit on it.

It will shake you, not the house, you'll love it

It will also make a good bass trap and be a piece of furniture

 

[bandit pilot]

Paul and Mark both know their stuff, so I'd give it a try. The other alternative is to get speakers that work in the room without foam or electronic intervention.

 

[Brumjam]

I'd third the suggestion of getting an expert in to measure your room and suggest next steps. You have a wonderful system and too much cash invested in it to be guessing at how to solve your low frequency issue. Even with the room professionally treated it still sounds too small to do justice to those speakers - could you extend the room or is this not practical?

 

[Markus]

A Bag End E-Trap can help with sorting bass problems. Like others have said, get someone in who knows what he's doing.

 

[sonrock]

Dear Sirs

Thank you very much for all of your advices and suggestions. I am sorry for late replying as I had family work this morning. Regarding room extension, its not practical at the moment Sirs. As I said, when time comes and am lucky enough, I will build extensions at the back of my house and got a very proper listening room, not now. I cant do anything at the moment, otherwise its wasting money and I cant spend that amount now.

I have already spend quite a mount of money for the bass traps + panels. but I do believe, just my humble opinion, that some proper helmholtz boxes will cure me.

I will think to relocate the sub again, but its only potential position now is next to the sofa on the right side. the thing is I dont use the sub with my q5 in 2 channel, just for ht and movies only. My wife is quite happy and satisfied with the room layout at the moment, so I will have to figure out how to get it sorted by this set up first, then move and move later on.

The bass traps manufacturer did contact me this morning and ask about the Helmholtz boxes, he can specifically make some for me to try here, for the low frequency below 100hz. I think I will got at least 4 of them in the room to absorb the low bass.

 

[bmtell]

Dear SirsThank you very much for all of your advices and suggestions. I am sorry for late replying as I had family work this morning. Regarding room extension, its not practical at the moment Sirs. As I said, when time comes and am lucky enough, I will build extensions at the back of my house and got a very proper listening room, not now. I cant do anything at the moment, otherwise its wasting money and I cant spend that amount now.

I have already spend quite a mount of money for the bass traps + panels. but I do believe, just my humble opinion, that some proper helmholtz boxes will cure me.

I will think to relocate the sub again, but its only potential position now is next to the sofa on the right side. the thing is I dont use the sub with my q5 in 2 channel, just for ht and movies only. My wife is quite happy and satisfied with the room layout at the moment, so I will have to figure out how to get it sorted by this set up first, then move and move later on.

The bass traps manufacturer did contact me this morning and ask about the Helmholtz boxes, he can specifically make some for me to try here, for the low frequency below 100hz. I think I will got at least 4 of them in the room to absorb the low bass.

Without any knowledge of how your room responds you will find it very difficult to get it right.

The easiest thing you could do is get a demo of an electronic room correction device.

 

[sonrock]

yes Sir, I do have zero knowledge about this and its hard for me. On the other hand, I am very busy at the moment with my work, normally come home around 9-11pm so have no time for doing as your suggestion. even at weekend when I still need to work sometime or bring my family to somewhere or even just sitting on front of the computer and skype (wc + voice) with my parents. I dont use them as excuses but its not a really good time for me though.

the acoustics panels maker did come to my house once but he didnt bring his equipment etc to help to measure but tried to persuade me to buy his product and diy at home, haha. so after that day, even I bought the panels from him - my wife she likes the blue colour - and now asking him to make the Helmholtz boxes for me, I dont have the mood of asking someone called "expert" to come round and help. I have to be clear that I am free to return his panels and not forced to buy anyway after few weeks demo with his panels at home. I keep 4 bass traps panels and returned 3 panels, and bought 2 huge corner bass traps previously too, all made by him.

After couple of weeks toying with the panels, I see the thick ones at 10cm deep, 120cm long and 60cm wide do the job quite properly although they cant make the boomy in some recordings go away, but in general good. The thin ones at 5cm deep, 120cm long 60cm wide cant work for me, they make the sound dry and really uninvolving although they do make the soundstage more precise and accurate. I take them away, so things come back to normal with the musical sounding and touching.

IMHO, the problem of the bass is created by the huge breast chimney on the right side also the granite step which blocks me pulling the right speaker closer to me. Regarding the chimney breast, its about 40cm deep and 150cm long, so its quite remarkably big in my room. It makes my right speaker seems sitting right next to the wall with no space - yes it does have space about 75cm from the tweeter to the outer wall - and the granite step make things look more ridiculous.

 

[sonrock]

you might take a look here first to see how the breast chimney and granite step block on the right side before I can take some proper pics later on

Once I was crazy enough to pull out the speakers into the middle of the room to avoid the fire place but I couldnt stand this, also my wife. She looked at me like an extraterrestrial and kept laughing . I am not a near field listener!

 

[Purite Audio]

Thanh Hi, Helmholtz resonators only work over a very specific frequency, you will need to measure the room to find the frequencies that need to be attenuated.

The problem I suspect is more to do with large reflex ported speakers inA smallish room.

I will send you a link to a room node calculator, just enter your rooms dimensions .

Keith.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanh Hi this is the link enter the dimensions of the room, it can't be exact but it might help.

KR Keith.

http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/room-eigenmodes.html

 

[sonrock]

Thank you Sir, my q5 are sealed boxes Sir, no port on them.

Sir, could you please give me a quick explain of how to understand the graph? I see the results, but in many frequency ranges, it appear most on one direction only. Let say at 107.2hz, nx = 0, ny = 3 and nz = 0. So I have to treat the side walls??? also applied for other frequencies result???