Linn Owners

Router Recommendation?

Make it SO

Make it SO
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I’m very close to throwing my 6 month old BT Smarthub Type A out of the window as the internet connection drops out at least once every day.  It’s predecessor lasted only 4 months and did much the same before it packed up altogether.  I’m on ADSL2+ here with a mighty download speed of 8.5Mb.

The house is wired with Cat 6 and everything is wired to the network except for an HP Windows tablet that connects via a Devolo plug as the router has to sit upstairs and the wi-fi signal won’t reach downstairs.  I’ve tried an old BT Hub 3.0 as a wireless access point but that didn’t work too well.  Despite criticism of the Devolo type solution, it seems to work OK for the tablet.   I run Kazoo on the tablet and its generally pain-free.

I’m thinking of getting a Draytek Vigor 130 modem that supports ADSL2+ and fibre for when us rural folk are eventually allowed into the 21st century.

Can anyone recommend a router – preferably a plug and play type as I'm not au fait with routers and networks?  I’ve heard TP Link is OK as an alternative to a BT Hub but its important to make sure it’s also OK with the Linn network.  Does anyone have one of these?

Any other suggestions – Asus, Netgear etc?

Thanks.

 

DavidHB

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Can anyone recommend a router – preferably a plug and play type as I'm not au fait with routers and networks?  I’ve heard TP Link is OK as an alternative to a BT Hub but its important to make sure it’s also OK with the Linn network.  Does anyone have one of these?
I have had for several years a TP Link TD-W9980 dual band (ADSL and VDSL), router, which I purchased when fibre broadband became available in my neck of the woods. Prior to that I had a Netgear ADSL non-wireless router that I used with a separate wireless access point. Both are excellent products with which I have had no trouble. The Linn kit works well with them, as it should with any decent router.

I always think that it is better to put a decent quality switch (in my case a Netgear GS108) at the central node of the wired network, and spur the router off that; it allows you to replace your router with minimum hassle. The audio system only needs the router for access to any wireless control points, the DHCP service (network addressing) and internet access for updates and streamed content. In my setup, the wireless on the router serves one end of the house, and I have a separate (AC standard) WAP for the other end. In this way, the control points when used with my main (Exakt) system typically have a line of sight connection to the WAP.

David

 
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JRS

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I have two BT networks using Smart Hubs. In one, I use the Smart Hub on its own (with one BT powerline adapter for BT TV); in the other, I use the Smart Hub in conjunction with a ASUS ZenWiFi AX Mesh. The latter network is more complicated as it is an old house with very thick stone walls. It is partly wired and partly wireless. I have to say that in both networks, the Smart Hubs work flawlessly. 

So I would investigate whether the network wiring or switches are causing your problems before I changed the hubs.

 
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DavidHB

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So I would investigate whether the network wiring or switches are causing your problems before I changed the hubs.
I understood Make ii SO to say that the problem was with his broadband cutting out, not with the local network. His connection is ADSL, in which I suspect that BT/Openreach has a lot less interest now that VDSL is the more widely used standard.

An issue that seems to arise all too frequently is with the quality of the copper wire connection from the cabinet or telegraph pole to the house. The Openreach so called fibre connections are typically only fibre to the cabinet; the copper connection can all too often compromise speed (as in my case) or degrade and become unreliable. My daughter has intermittent trouble with this, and Openreach seem to want to do anything and everything except replace the cable that is clearly causing the problem. Whether that is part of Make it SO's problem I cannot say.

David

 

Phobic

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I’m very close to throwing my 6 month old BT Smarthub Type A out of the window as the internet connection drops out at least once every day.  It’s predecessor lasted only 4 months and did much the same before it packed up altogether.  I’m on ADSL2+ here with a mighty download speed of 8.5Mb.

The house is wired with Cat 6 and everything is wired to the network except for an HP Windows tablet that connects via a Devolo plug as the router has to sit upstairs and the wi-fi signal won’t reach downstairs.  I’ve tried an old BT Hub 3.0 as a wireless access point but that didn’t work too well.  Despite criticism of the Devolo type solution, it seems to work OK for the tablet.   I run Kazoo on the tablet and its generally pain-free.

I’m thinking of getting a Draytek Vigor 130 modem that supports ADSL2+ and fibre for when us rural folk are eventually allowed into the 21st century.

Can anyone recommend a router – preferably a plug and play type as I'm not au fait with routers and networks?  I’ve heard TP Link is OK as an alternative to a BT Hub but its important to make sure it’s also OK with the Linn network.  Does anyone have one of these?

Any other suggestions – Asus, Netgear etc?

Thanks.
your internet connection shouldn't be dropping out like that and replacing the router is unlikely to fix it.

ring up and raise a fault

 

Moomintroll

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I agree with Phobic. I’m sure I had a similar problem several years ago and BT Openreach traced it to a connection in one of the street cabinets.

’troll

 
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Jail4CEOs2

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I'm uncertain of the OP's brand of router and it's function. If it is the first device in the home after the wire from the street, doesn't it have to stay, or do UK carriers allow customers to supply their own modem? Here not, so I only use the carrier supplied modem to create the connection for my ADSL, and then create my own network downstream of that. I had my carrier disable their Wi-Fi as well. 

I am happy with the Wi-Fi signal of my Asus AC88U, but maybe its implementation of Upnp might not be the best, as my occasional "waiting for room" issues were reduced upon the addition of a Netgear 108 T switch for the audio/video gear.

 

Make it SO

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Thanks for the replies everyone.

We have old copper overhead wires from the cabinet.  When Open Reach 'upgraded' us to ADSL2+' (please don't laugh), we did get download speeds of around 12Mb for a while but its now been put down to 8Mb by Open Reach.  I've queried it with BT but I get the usual response in which they ask to test the line and then tell me there's nothing wrong with it.  We're with BT Business rather than Residential and I did persuade someone at Business to contact Open Reach.  The response was that we're getting the best they can currently deliver and all is well at the cabinet and the cable journey to our home.

The last time I raised a fault with BT was when the original Smarthub dropped connection completely.  I spent an hour on the phone while BT went through umpteen tests before they finally accepted it must be the Smarthub.  They sent a replacement and arranged for an engineer to call.  I explained that no engineer was needed as the problem was on my side of the BT socket and due to a faulty Smarthub.

Last week I got a monthly bill from BT - usually around £40 - for just over £300!!!  There was no explanation for it and when I phoned I was told it was for the engineer call-out following the Smarthub failure 6 months ago!  They've now issued me a refund.

The problem is, I'm sure, with the Smarthub itself.  The home network has been working fine since installed 7 years ago.  The Smarthub is the first device on the network and I'm using a dedicated Netgear GS108 switch for the Linn set ups.  BT has apparently had a number of complaints about connection drop-outs with the Smarthub.  Ironically, it never happened in the 6 years I had the earlier Home Hub 3.0. 

That's progress for you.  :wall:

 

The Twins

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Jail4CEOs2 Here in the UK it is mainly BT Openreach who are the carrier for the internet traffic and that traffic is supplied to the customer by their chosen ISP (Internet Service Provider) to whom they pay a monthly charge. Most ISPs supply the customer with a Router, usually free and not always very good quality. Many ISPs allow you to use another compatible Router of your choice but some do not allow you to do that..

The other main choice in the UK is cable only supplied by Virgin Media. You usually have to use their Router for this service.

 

Phobic

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Thanks for the replies everyone.

We have old copper overhead wires from the cabinet.  When Open Reach 'upgraded' us to ADSL2+' (please don't laugh), we did get download speeds of around 12Mb for a while but its now been put down to 8Mb by Open Reach.  I've queried it with BT but I get the usual response in which they ask to test the line and then tell me there's nothing wrong with it.  We're with BT Business rather than Residential and I did persuade someone at Business to contact Open Reach.  The response was that we're getting the best they can currently deliver and all is well at the cabinet and the cable journey to our home.

The last time I raised a fault with BT was when the original Smarthub dropped connection completely.  I spent an hour on the phone while BT went through umpteen tests before they finally accepted it must be the Smarthub.  They sent a replacement and arranged for an engineer to call.  I explained that no engineer was needed as the problem was on my side of the BT socket and due to a faulty Smarthub.

Last week I got a monthly bill from BT - usually around £40 - for just over £300!!!  There was no explanation for it and when I phoned I was told it was for the engineer call-out following the Smarthub failure 6 months ago!  They've now issued me a refund.

The problem is, I'm sure, with the Smarthub itself.  The home network has been working fine since installed 7 years ago.  The Smarthub is the first device on the network and I'm using a dedicated Netgear GS108 switch for the Linn set ups.  BT has apparently had a number of complaints about connection drop-outs with the Smarthub.  Ironically, it never happened in the 6 years I had the earlier Home Hub 3.0. 

That's progress for you.  :wall:
They may be right about the line speed, but that's not the same things as stability.

how frequently are you getting dropouts? if this is anything more than about once every ~4-6 months then you might have an intermittent fault on your line.

I still doubt it's the hub, suspect whoever you talked to ran out of ideas and just sent you a replacement in the hope that it might fix it. Generally the hubs either work or they don't, they don't play up and drop the connection like this.

ring back and log the fault, if they try and sent you another hub I would decline and ask to talk to a specialist care team about the problem stating that you have tried 2 hubs with no change to the service.

if you're not getting any joy then send an email to the CEO, ISPs usually have dedicated teams to manage complaints to the CEO...

how do I know all this? I use to design broadband networks for ISPs :)

 
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Phobic

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Jail4CEOs2 Here in the UK it is mainly BT Openreach who are the carrier for the internet traffic and that traffic is supplied to the customer by their chosen ISP (Internet Service Provider) to whom they pay a monthly charge. Most ISPs supply the customer with a Router, usually free and not always very good quality. Many ISPs allow you to use another compatible Router of your choice but some do not allow you to do that..

The other main choice in the UK is cable only supplied by Virgin Media. You usually have to use their Router for this service.
Thought I'd respond to this as I have a lot of insider knowledge.

You're almost right but there are also large Local Loop Unbunding (LLU) networks owned and operated by other ISPs which don't use any Openreach network other than the physical copper lines from the home to the exchange.

Sky and Talktalk have the biggest LLU footprint in the UK and a large market share as well.

BT Openreach in this table is what I think you are referring to, they actually only have 40% market share. Openreach only provide the network between the customer premise and the exchange, the ISPs takes over from there and aggregates all their traffic and provides connectivity to the WWW.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0030/116994/statement-wba-review.pdf

image.png

 
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TooManyCatweazles

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your internet connection shouldn't be dropping out like that and replacing the router is unlikely to fix it.

ring up and raise a fault
Yes, maybe, and yes. I have been experiencing dropout issues on my Vodafone cable connection in November. The symptoms were a three digit ping, and a high rate of paket loss. To make things more fuzzy I could observe a clear diurnal cycle, with normal ping during the night, and high ping from around 8ish. This looked like a 'traffic congestion' to me:

image.png

The Vodafone hotline claimed, that their network was ok. I admit that I did not believe this in the first place, but they were right. Replacement of my Fritz!Box (leased by Vodafone within my plan) cured the issues.

I have no clue was the actual fault was, so I cannot say whether it can or cannot apply to your case, at all. Anyway, I would run a speedtest program and log the results.

 
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Phobic

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Yes and no. I have been experiencing dropout issues on my Vodafone cable connection in November. The symptom was a three digit ping and a high rate of paket loss. To make things more complicated I could observe a clear diurnal cycle, with normal ping during the night and high ping from around 8ish. This looked like a 'traffic congestion' to me:

20220508_053658.jpg

The Vodafone hotline claimed, that their network was ok. I admit that I did not believe this in the first place, but they were right. Replacement of my Fritz!Box (leased by Vodafone within my plan) cured the issues.
That sounds like a very very odd failure in a broadband router to cause time of time specific latency, I'm familiar with internal hub architecture and I couldn't hazard a guess at what could cause that.

I personally think your guess was correct, congestion in voda, your latency correlates very well with internet usage....

1-s2.0-S2214629618301051-gr6.jpg


EDIT: just an afterthought but I think it's more likely that a change of router made your PPP session reconnect to a different core network node, one which was less congested.

Policies and connections from the exchange to core networks are often done based on MAC and/or IP hashing, so a new router might have just happened to point your connection somewhere else - Cisco devices in particular are very sticky about always sending the same connections down the same links in this way 

 
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Dasher

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I went through these exact same issues with BT about 36 months ago. I live less than 50m from what was  a BT ADSL hub and never had any issues at all - 20mbps download, no dropouts.  Slowly this changed - it dropped to12mbps, then 8mbps and by the time I'd had enough it was struggling to hit 1mbps (this was a sharp drop). As far as I'm  aware, as  BT rolled out VDSL the distance to  legacy ADSL increased, and the number sharing also increased as they grouped. I'm still convinced that it is/was a ploy to drive people to VDSL. As my business is home based I  really had no choice and signed up to Infinity. I've had little if any issues since (one router gave up the ghost about a year ago). In return I get 70mbps download speeds, almost no outages and actually pay very little more than previously (close to the figure that the OP quoted  (before vat)). I'm with David HB - my strong suspicion is that this is linked to BTs lack of interest in ADSL these days.

 

bohemian

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As I have mentioned elsewhere I have had problems with a change from homehub 3 with openreach modem to Smart Hub 2.

The “expert” sent to install it (I had already done this) didn’t know anything about them.

I could not connect my JRiver server on pc via the router to my tv in another room - an all ethernet cabled connection.  Wifi worked fine, but still no connection from my pc.

Last Friday 2 experts arrived and had it working of sorts.

Over the weekend I worked out that my pc and router had a new network set up (Network 2) and I needed to go through sharing settings for the new network.

The change of deal was £5 cheaper per month too, with approx 70Mb and unlimited d/l.

I phoned BT today just to thank them for getting it on the right track and to ask for my thanks to be passed to the technical expert team.

I ended up with the same deal as I had changed to but another £6 off the bill per month!  Apologies for being “messed about” and thanks for being a long-term customer!  So now I have the same service as I started with, the ‘upgraded’ hub and £11 cheaper!
 

I am quite satisfied with thať.

 

Newton John

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I’m very close to throwing my 6 month old BT Smarthub Type A out of the window as the internet connection drops out at least once every day.  It’s predecessor lasted only 4 months and did much the same before it packed up altogether.  I’m on ADSL2+ here with a mighty download speed of 8.5Mb.

The house is wired with Cat 6 and everything is wired to the network except for an HP Windows tablet that connects via a Devolo plug as the router has to sit upstairs and the wi-fi signal won’t reach downstairs.  I’ve tried an old BT Hub 3.0 as a wireless access point but that didn’t work too well.  Despite criticism of the Devolo type solution, it seems to work OK for the tablet.   I run Kazoo on the tablet and its generally pain-free.

I’m thinking of getting a Draytek Vigor 130 modem that supports ADSL2+ and fibre for when us rural folk are eventually allowed into the 21st century.

Can anyone recommend a router – preferably a plug and play type as I'm not au fait with routers and networks?  I’ve heard TP Link is OK as an alternative to a BT Hub but its important to make sure it’s also OK with the Linn network.  Does anyone have one of these?

Any other suggestions – Asus, Netgear etc?

Thanks.
I recently moved to a new house wired with Cat 7. We have fast fibre and the internet provider is BT. Things worked ok at first, but a recent Sky Q installation with two extra mini boxes made the network unstable. 

There's five of us making demands of the network when my sons are home from university. My wife and daughter both work from home and the boys had some online exams. Therefore, I came under some pressure to keep it working satisfactorily. 

My solution was to take out the BT Hub router and replace it with the Netgear R7000 I'd been using in the old house. Also, I scrapped the old Netgear router that was acting as an additional Wireless Access Point and replaced it with two brand new Netgear WAPs.

All is well now except I have lost the BT Digital Voice that comes with the BT Hub so we have no home telephone. Everybody was of the opinion that this was a small price to pay for reliable internet.

 
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DavidHB

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All is well now except I have lost the BT Digital Voice that comes with the BT Hub so we have no home telephone. Everybody was of the opinion that this was a small price to pay for reliable internet.
An interesting sign of the times. I assume that your house is not wired for both conventional phone and internet. If there are standard  phone sockets, they can perhaps be run from the house master socket, which these days should have both phone and broadband outlets, as well as a built in filter to stop the one interfering with the other.

David

 

Phobic

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I went through these exact same issues with BT about 36 months ago. I live less than 50m from what was  a BT ADSL hub and never had any issues at all - 20mbps download, no dropouts.  Slowly this changed - it dropped to12mbps, then 8mbps and by the time I'd had enough it was struggling to hit 1mbps (this was a sharp drop). As far as I'm  aware, as  BT rolled out VDSL the distance to  legacy ADSL increased, and the number sharing also increased as they grouped. I'm still convinced that it is/was a ploy to drive people to VDSL. As my business is home based I  really had no choice and signed up to Infinity. I've had little if any issues since (one router gave up the ghost about a year ago). In return I get 70mbps download speeds, almost no outages and actually pay very little more than previously (close to the figure that the OP quoted  (before vat)). I'm with David HB - my strong suspicion is that this is linked to BTs lack of interest in ADSL these days.
your ADSL shouldn't have reduced in speed like that, you have a fault on your line, phone up and complain.

ADSL distance does not change, it's simply the length of copper phone line. Increased numbers of people on ADSL will increase cross talk which will marginally reduce speed, and will also increase contention during busy periods but neither of these things account for your degraded service.

As for your ploy to push people onto VDSL, that's just silly frankly - Ofcom highly regulate all ISPs, that sort of behavior just isn't allowed, and even if it were the ISPs would loose out as people moved over to other providers. It's a very competitive market. 

Not sure why you think there's a lack of interest in ADSL, I'm afraid it's here to stay for a long time given recent reports about how long it will take to deploy full fiber nationally....

I am quite satisfied with thať.
great to hear you got everything sorted :)

I recently moved to a new house wired with Cat 7. We have fast fibre and the internet provider is BT. Things worked ok at first, but a recent Sky Q installation with two extra mini boxes made the network unstable. 

There's five of us making demands of the network when my sons are home from university. My wife and daughter both work from home and the boys had some online exams. Therefore, I came under some pressure to keep it working satisfactorily. 

My solution was to take out the BT Hub router and replace it with the Netgear R7000 I'd been using in the old house. Also, I scrapped the old Netgear router that was acting as an additional Wireless Access Point and replaced it with two brand new Netgear WAPs.

All is well now except I have lost the BT Digital Voice that comes with the BT Hub so we have no home telephone. Everybody was of the opinion that this was a small price to pay for reliable internet.
I'm not quite sure why you've done what you've done to be honest.

the Netgear R7000 won't do anything to help your main bottleneck which is the broadband connection, you'll be connecting at the same speed (in fact you might be connecting slower now as most ISP routers are optimised for speed and/or stability).

if things are working better, it suggests to me that your problems are not having enough bandwidth within the home.

you can your have the best of both worlds and get digital voice back + have a faster 1GB/s home networks by simply plugging the R7000 into the ISP router - then connect everything in your house into the R7000 as you are doing now.

 

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