RUSSELL K IN THE HOUSE – IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE

Trunky

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Or,  we could just by happy for the op because he's happy. 
I can be happy for him.

The designer can be happy too because he got a £4K speaker sale and an 'interesting' review on a forum.

But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 

 
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awkwardbydesign

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Unfortunately I only had parcel tape to hand rather than masking tape. I hope this won’t affect the outcome.
I'm afraid it will.  You see, the resonance (and therefore isolation) characteristics will be completely different.  A simple test; hang a reel of parcel tape over one ear and flick it sharply with a finger.  Now do the same with a reel of masking tape, and hear how different they sound.  Even better, stick a button mic in your ear and actually measure it. (That one's for Keith.)

I can be happy for him.

The designer can be happy too because he got a £4K speaker sale and an 'interesting' review on a forum.

But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 
This is how Serge would sound without his meds.  :nerves:

 

parcelmonkey

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But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 
Can't you ask nicely and go visit the OP to hear / see for yourself? Would confirm or deny your thoughts...?

That's a rather extreme over reaction.
It's fairly normal from T-Rex's. :D

 
G

Guest

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Both sides have put their view across . If people dont want to accept that . Then move on . Its only a bloody stereo 

 

Trunky

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I've now tried this. I use a rather esoteric monopole power block and so was only able to fit/require one roll of tape underneath. I began to notice some improvement in the resolution but little else when using 25mm sellotape. Swapping to 50mm parcel tape gave further improvement in resolution and increased inky blackness as well as improved presence and 3-D imaging.

I was prepared to stop at that point, but I rushed off to B&Q to buy a roll of Duct tape. What a revelation! A veil has now been truly lifted, there is real weight and grip to the bottom end. Previously noted sibilance had now vanished and vocals were now articulated clearly and with great timing. More importantly the  realism and forwardness of the image had been enhanced to the point where I could have believed Peter Gabriel was stood directly in front of me. I have never experienced this before and I truly thank the OP for opening my mind to this tweak, it's an absolute no-brainer.

20171102_104453.jpg

 
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parcelmonkey

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I've now tried this. I use a rather esoteric monopole power block and so was only able to fit/require one roll of tape underneath. I began to notice some improvement in the resolution but little else when using 25mm sellotape. Swapping to 50mm parcel tape gave further improvement in resolution and increased inky blackness as well as improved presence and 3-D imaging.

I was prepared to stop at that point, but I rushed off to B&Q to buy a roll of Duct tape. What a revelation! A veil has now been truly lifted, there is real weight and grip to the bottom end. Previously noted sibilance had now vanished and vocals were now articulated clearly and with great timing. More importantly the  realism and forwardness of the image had been enhanced to the point where I could have believed Peter Gabriel was stood directly in front of me. I have never experienced this before and I truly thank the OP for opening my mind to this tweak, it's an absolute no-brainer.

Peter Hammill - The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage.jpg

 
:rofl:

Hiding behind sarcasm is better than just telling someone to go f*** themselves, otherwise most people consider this rude behaviour in social circles!

I don't have power conditioning, but want to try this cheap upgrade. Can anyone suggest an alternative for my hifi rack. I tried but the spikes went straight through the middle of the roll...

 
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oldius

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The worst system I have heard at a show contained Russel K loudspeakers. It was fronted by hugely expensive electronics from Clearaudio and Pass Labs so I assumed the speakers were the guilty party more than the rest. Since then, though I have not heard another pair, a number of people I know have spoken very highly of RK designs so your thread is an interesting one for me to follow. I hope you continue to enjoy your new speakers.

The tape is a bizarre concept and, scientifically, beyond belief. We have all heard worse though and I have felt the power of the Shakti and witnessed a tin foil cap atop the baldy head of a wammer!

 

Lurch

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Whether one agrees or disagrees with the outcome/OPs observations is irrelevant, as it's each to their own.

However, what I take from post #1, is that the speaker designer took the time out from what is more than likely a busy day, to go to a customer's house and help him get the best from his purchase. This action in turn leads me to believe that should I or anyone else decide to purchase from the company, then they would receive excellent customer service. 

Yes measurement has its place and is great if that's YOUR thing, however sometimes ignorance is bliss, especially if you don't have the finances to invest in DSP, or the ability to adjust your listening environment due to SWIMBO input. 

After all, what's worse,

1. Measuring something and being told your setup is shite and only spending £1k on DSP/getting a divorce so you can change furniture layout, will make it sound better/as it should. 

2. Enjoying what you have and maybe making a few very low cost tweaks, which to YOU,  makes a difference and adds to YOUR listening pleasure. 

For me it's option 2, every time. 

 
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awkwardbydesign

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The tape is a bizarre concept and, scientifically, beyond belief. 
Not necessarily.  Are there cables just under the floor of the OP,  for instance?

I have heard Russel's speakers in a domestic environment and spoken to him about his crossover design.  Both impressed me, even though I wouldn't buy them, as I have always made my own.

 

oldius

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Not necessarily.  Are there cables just under the floor of the OP,  for instance?

I have heard Russel's speakers in a domestic environment and spoken to him about his crossover design.  Both impressed me, even though I wouldn't buy them, as I have always made my own.
As I said, I have heard stranger things! I think you are implying interference between speaker cable and a cable beneath the floor that the speaker cables lay upon. I have never heard of that before but I am always willing to be swayed in a double-blind test situation!

 

Sotosound

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Not necessarily.  Are there cables just under the floor of the OP,  for instance?

I have heard Russel's speakers in a domestic environment and spoken to him about his crossover design.  Both impressed me, even though I wouldn't buy them, as I have always made my own.
Now there's a thought.

Actually, my speaker cables run under the floor and probably very close to where the power block sits (on reels of masking tape).

Kin El !

 

rabski

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Here's a totally different take.

I've been thinking about this, and I'll admit that as a partial measurebater, it's very easy to dismiss the 'results' here as nonsense. However, we're taking the approach that isolating the mains distribution block affects the mains supply in some way. Now, I agree that I can see absolutely no way that is possible. No ammount of vibration (within reason) is going to interfere with transmission of 240v AC through a wire.

Yet... we're looking here at a not insignificant lump of metal. Large metal boxes can resonate with air-borne vibration, so what if that is what is possibly making a difference? I have used various supports and various internal damping over the years. As far as I can see, the main result is to stop bits of tin, steel or aluminium from resonating; some of which do so audibly. I had a large power conditioner at one time and th steel casing was prone to audible resonance at particular bass frequencies. Took me ages to work out what was causing something clearly audible, but application of some internal damping fixed it. Subtle, yes. Audible, definitely.

Just a thought...

 

Sotosound

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As I said, I have heard stranger things! I think you are implying interference between speaker cable and a cable beneath the floor that the speaker cables lay upon. I have never heard of that before but I am always willing to be swayed in a double-blind test situation!
When I was 13 and we lived in North London, I had my first real portable radio - a little Stella radio with Medium and Long Wave.

At that time, the UK pirate radio stations had just been shut down and I spent time trying to listen to Radio Veronica, a Dutch station that could barely be received.

I fixed this by placing my radio on the carpet on the first floor by the wall between the front and rear main bedrooms. There was a light switch and loads of other 240V wiring that passed up the wall between those two rooms and it acted like a signal booster for my little radio. There was a lot of interference but I do remember "Reflections" by Diana Ross and The Supremes coming through loud, if not clear, on Radio Veronica (Vee-ron-i-caa as they used to say) with my radio sat there.

This is a bit like revisiting those days. :)  

 

Sotosound

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Here's a totally different take.

I've been thinking about this, and I'll admit that as a partial measurebater, it's very easy to dismiss the 'results' here as nonsense. However, we're taking the approach that isolating the mains distribution block affects the mains supply in some way. Now, I agree that I can see absolutely no way that is possible. No ammount of vibration (within reason) is going to interfere with transmission of 240v AC through a wire.

Yet... we're looking here at a not insignificant lump of metal. Large metal boxes can resonate with air-borne vibration, so what if that is what is possibly making a difference? I have used various supports and various internal damping over the years. As far as I can see, the main result is to stop bits of tin, steel or aluminium from resonating; some of which do so audibly. I had a large power conditioner at one time and th steel casing was prone to audible resonance at particular bass frequencies. Took me ages to work out what was causing something clearly audible, but application of some internal damping fixed it. Subtle, yes. Audible, definitely.

Just a thought...
And it may be.

Also, it may be that the speaker cables are the ones getting interference from the power block, which might directly affect what reaches the speakers.

Dunno, but at least there are possible technical reasons for what I hear.

Many thanks to Rabski and Oldius.

(Now I need to dig up the floor and move the speaker cables to see what effect that has.  Hmmm! Perhaps not. :)  )

 

rabski

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And it may be.

Also, it may be that the speaker cables are the ones getting interference from the power block, which might directly affect what reaches the speakers.

Dunno, but at least there are possible technical reasons for what I hear.

Many thanks to Rabski and Oldius.

(Now I need to dig up the floor and move the speaker cables to see what effect that has.  Hmmm! Perhaps not. :)  )
Almost certainly, zero.

The power block is metal encased and (one would sincerely hope) grounded, so likely to be fairly 'dead' in terms of radiated interference.

It takes a fair bit for mains interference (radiated) to affect even the lowest levels of signal transmission (e.g. cartridge to phono stage). The current passed through speaker cables is relatively large.

As an experiment, connect a long length of cable to a speaker and coil it, which will increase any effect. Wave anything you like near it and I absolutely gurantee you will hear nothing from the speaker.

There has been mention before of some RF effects that can be picked up from speaker cables and then affect the signal due to internal feedback design in the amplifier. I don't believe this for a minute. Any RF feedback will be picked up by other sections of the amplifier or signal cabling, and even then it's indicative of somewhat poor design.

 
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Trunky

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I've found a roll of 50mm copper tape that I'll try tomorrow to see if it has even more positive effect.

 

rabski

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When I was 13 and we lived in North London, I had my first real portable radio - a little Stella radio with Medium and Long Wave.

At that time, the UK pirate radio stations had just been shut down and I spent time trying to listen to Radio Veronica, a Dutch station that could barely be received.

I fixed this by placing my radio on the carpet on the first floor by the wall between the front and rear main bedrooms. There was a light switch and loads of other 240V wiring that passed up the wall between those two rooms and it acted like a signal booster for my little radio. There was a lot of interference but I do remember "Reflections" by Diana Ross and The Supremes coming through loud, if not clear, on Radio Veronica (Vee-ron-i-caa as they used to say) with my radio sat there.

This is a bit like revisiting those days. :)  
Ah, but there may be a totally different explanation. Like sound waves, radio waves have 'nodes' where the signal is stronger in some places than in others. I can't see how adjacent mains wiring could boost a weak radio signal. In fact, I'd expect the opposite. Depending on what was behind the walls, I suppose there's a possibility something could have been acting as effectively an intermediate aerial, but anything metal in a wall (pipes, etc.) even in those days would have been grounded. As you probably should have been for listening to the radio when you should have been in bed :D

 

Tony_J

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Ah, but there may be a totally different explanation. Like sound waves, radio waves have 'nodes' where the signal is stronger in some places than in others. I can't see how adjacent mains wiring could boost a weak radio signal. In fact, I'd expect the opposite. Depending on what was behind the walls, I suppose there's a possibility something could have been acting as effectively an intermediate aerial, but anything metal in a wall (pipes, etc.) even in those days would have been grounded. As you probably should have been for listening to the radio when you should have been in bed :D
So nobody nodes...  :?

 

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