Second hand value for full serviced QUAD ESL 63?

andreweast

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Since I became interested in vintage Quads, I've seen lots of 63s on eBay in various states of disrepair, but not so many fully served pairs.

I picked up a pair recently which had a low output on one speaker. It was a bit of a gamble, but I thought that perhaps they just needed some attention to the electronics.

I've now got a service quote from Quad. They are saying that one speaker had no DAG application, so needs all the panels replacing. In order to get the two speakers matched, they say a full service is necessary, which would be just over £1K.

So it seems I gambled and lost! The question is how much would they be worth if I go for the full service but then don't find that I want to keep them?

 

Tenson

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What is DAG? I presume it is the conductive coating on the diaphragm?

The panels from One Thing sound very different, basically no treble at all. If they have some original Quad panels they could be worth getting.

Could you service the panels yourself? You can get Mylar and the conductive coating from eBay. You just need to figure how to tension it right.

 

andreweast

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This pair have been serviced by One Thing a number of times over the years, but based on Rob Holt's advice and others I decided to take them to Quad. I don't trust myself to service them so it was Quad or bust. I just wasn't expecting the full re-panelling.

Quad basically put in new panels, the same ones that they used for 989s, whereas One Thing restore the original panels.

Does anyone have any idea how much a fully serviced pair is worth?

 

GR1

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I don't think you will do more than cover your costs if you sell them after a full refurb and you might not even do that. You might be better off selling them as needing a repair and letting the buyer fix them. As far as used values go do be aware that a good pair of Quad 2805's can be got for just over £2k if you look patiently on eBay. They are much better then the 63.You are looking at £1k+ for the repair and you have already paid something to get them.

If you don't know whether you want to keep them I would sell them as is.

 

Tenson

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andreweast

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Of course I would tell the new buyer the truth!!

Regarding 2805s. I guess I've heard varying reports about whether they are better than a good pair of 63s. I've yet to hear them myself but I would like to.

 

GR1

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I'm in Streatham - shouldn't be far from you Andrew. You are very welcome to have a listen to my 2805's if you would like to.

 

RobHolt

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Hi Andrew, I've responded to your PM on pfm but yes, Simon is correct is stating that OTA apply a different coating and that Quad maintain this is not stable (yes, it falls off).

I've had exactly that issue when I had a defective panel repaired. It worked fine for 6 months then slowly lost output. I've had the same issue with 57 panels from them. That's why I recommend all panel servicing/replacement be done by Quad.

£1k will effectively get you a pair of guaranteed 988s in 63 clothing - so I'd say that's still a bargain given new Quads are now £5k+

All new panels, all matched, made to better standards than the originals using stronger glues.

Were you to sell them after restoration I'd imagine £1500 would't be unreasonable.

 

Martha's dad

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5 years back bought a completely refurbed pair of esl63 from quad for £1400 - they were as new - Quad often has refurbed on offer. I sold them on for exact same price - but they were now as new.

However, there is a superb and economic quad speaker engineer in Leicester who has refurbed/ repaired many quads for me over the years. His technique is different to One Thing and Quad though he ws infact trained by One thing audio. Drop a pm if you want contact details. He is excellent.

BTW for me - ESL63 every time if I wanted an electrostatic. :)

PS Not easy to find but if you can ESL63 PRO version are excellent - different frame put them in GFD stands.

 

RobHolt

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£1500!!? Is that a dealer price?
No, I've based it on purchasing a part faulty pair @ <£500 and then paying Quad £1k to fix them.

I'd pay £2k for a pair I knew were 'as new' in terms of electronics and sonics, on the basis that if I want that sound nothing else comes remotely close at the price. I'm not saying it's 'the best' sound for everyone or suchlike, just that it has unique qualities which you simply can't find other than in later versions of the same thing.

 

browellm

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No, I've based it on purchasing a part faulty pair @ <£500 and then paying Quad £1k to fix them.I'd pay £2k for a pair I knew were 'as new' in terms of electronics and sonics, on the basis that if I want that sound nothing else comes remotely close at the price. I'm not saying it's 'the best' sound for everyone or suchlike, just that it has unique qualities which you simply can't find other than in later versions of the same thing.
I was just going off some recent s/h prices on here. Some very good ones have gone for £500-£1000.

 
M

Mike P

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I'm with Mark on this one. Based on the prices I've seen, I think a seller would struggle to get much more than £1K for a mint restored pair (OTA or Quad restoration).

 

Martha's dad

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Re: the name in Leicester It's not paul of classique audio is it? Coz I thought he used to send the to OTA for fixing.

I'm pretty sure there is very little margin in this unless you DIY. Buying old quads should be about getting them sorted with a view to making them yours for two years of serious listening. If you are not handy then you need to be prepared to spend a little.
Hi AD - not Classique/ Paul - the company is called One Quad Thing - Andy Jones!

 

Tenson

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Tenson don't you market tweeters under Audiosmile or am I mistaken. If you are the same tenson isn't slagging of competition a little bit of a conflict?
I don't think I'm slagging anyone off, nor are One Thing my competition since I don't repair ESLs. Their panels have much less treble output than original Quads, it's a fact they will attest to themselves. As for the coating it is also different than Quads for sure. Does it degrade more quickly? Well that was Rob's experience and I understand others have found the same. The pair under discussion in this thread were previously serviced by them and have a degraded panel coating.

 

RobHolt

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Just for clarification:

- I have a pair of OTA restored 57s - the OTEC treble panels severely lost output - as in -20db at 20khz. Both panels the same. I had to instal original panels to get these working again, which they now do.

- When I bought my faulty 63s I sent the damaged panel to OTA for a refurb. It came back and worked for 6 months, then lost output just like the 57.

- Two other customers of mine have reported exactly the same issue - falling output and especially loss of HF.

- I've discussed this with Quad themselves, who after all build the things in the first place, and they confirmed the cause of the problems.

- Andrew here has bought OTA panelled 63s and, once again, output is falling and Quad have again confirmed the cause.

So yes I'll make my opinions known on the basis of direct experience and that of my customers.

Quad charge around £20 more per panel than OTA do for a 're-skin' and for that you get new build 988 panels. Surely a no brainer?

If people are happy to run ELS with failing sensitivity, dire frequency responses way out of spec, or severely compromised HF response then fine. This doesn't actually surprise me having heard what some people regard as hi-fi, but it's not how these things are supposed to sound.

More generally, I'd say if you want to keep one of the most revolutionary, finest sounding loudspeakers ever produced in good order, you can't do it on the cheap. If however you regard the 63 as a science project, do as you please with it :)

 

andreweast

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I was just going off some recent s/h prices on here. Some very good ones have gone for £500-£1000.
I've not seen any 63s with anywhere near a full recent service for such prices, but then I haven't been looking for long.

I agree with Rob, that if you think in terms of how much you need to spend on other speakers to match any of their qualities, then spending £1k on a service is nothing. I'm just not sure how they will work in my house and I'm not sure if I will get used to their room-hogging qualities, so I'd prefer to be cautious and try a cheap pair for a while. I wish I'd managed to bag a fully working pair but I've been less lucky.

 

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