Sound quality of CD’s vs FLAC

[Ceko]

My current project: ripping all of my cd’s onto a Innuos Zen mini. In my mind the FLAC format that the Innuos saves the disks in should sound the same as the physical disk. But the disk still seems to win sound quality wise, even if the Innuos is connected to the same DAC as the cd player. Could it be a volume-matching thing?

 

[hifinutt]

opinions seem to vary . personally i was not convinced enough to dump my cd players for the innuous zen . very happy with quality of cd`s . however it was very helpful when i took the zen back to dealer and i could listen to all my cd`s on it with the speakers there

 

[tuga]

My current project: ripping all of my cd’s onto a Innuos Zen mini. In my mind the FLAC format that the Innuos saves the disks in should sound the same as the physical disk. But the disk still seems to win sound quality wise, even if the Innuos is connected to the same DAC as the cd player. Could it be a volume-matching thing?

With the same DAC that is unlikely, unless the Innuos is upsampling and reducing the gain to avoid intersample overs.

 

[Antonmb]

I'm not sure your question can be properly answered without knowing more about the setup. What DAC and CD player are you using? How is the cd connected to the DAC - USB, SPDIF? How is the Innuos connected to the DAC?

 

[Jules_S]

In theory, a FLAC file should sound the same as the CD it was ripped from. It's lossless after all. However, in practice that can't always be taken for granted. Contrary to popular opinion, computers (that's what these things really are, specialised computers) are NOT perfect. Errors could be introduced during the ripping process - timing (jitter??) or just being unable to read or error-correct the datastream perfectly, the storage process (HDDs and SSDs all have failure rates, suffer with bad sectors etc that can lose or corrupt data) or the playback process - noise introduced in the circuitry, issues in dealing with the decompression of the FLAC file, etc.

I would expect something like an Innuos to be pretty good at doing it all (I'm assuming that's the kit responsible for ripping the CDs?) but it's still not infallible. (neither is reading the CD directly of course). Bear in mind that some sort of computing device is still having to perform a compression / decompression task and that takes processing power, which is a potential factor. Like any audio reproduction chain, errors can be introduced anywhere in the process that can impact the result

 

[tuga]

How is the cd connected to the DAC - USB, SPDIF? How is the Innuos connected to the DAC?

It doesn't matter. The signal level will be identical regardless of the input.

 

[Ceko]

You’re all right. My first tests weren’t good.
Now I’ve got my cd player and my zen hooked up both via coax, they sound exactly the same

First I had the Zen hooked up to the internal dac of the cd player but switching back and forth had a one second or so pause.

You can view this thread as unwritten!

 

[DomT]

You’re all right. My first tests weren’t good.
Now I’ve got my cd player and my zen hooked up both via coax, they sound exactly the same

First I had the Zen hooked up to the internal dac of the cd player but switching back and forth had a one second or so pause.

You can view this thread as unwritten!

Then maybe I shouldn’t tell you that my Auralic Aries Mini into my Benchmark DAC2 sounds different to my Innuos Zen Mini into my Benchmark playing the same FLAC files. And the same Zen Mini into my Auralic Altair G1 sounds different to the Aurlaic Altair G1. And that my Marantz UD7007 into my Benchmark DAC2 sounded better than the Aries Mini into the Benchmark. But the Cambridge Audio CD5 into my Benchmark sounded worse than the Aries Mini.

 

[DomT]

My current project: ripping all of my cd’s onto a Innuos Zen mini. In my mind the FLAC format that the Innuos saves the disks in should sound the same as the physical disk. But the disk still seems to win sound quality wise, even if the Innuos is connected to the same DAC as the cd player. Could it be a volume-matching thing?

The wonderful thing about Innuos is their marvellous App. Searching for music is a very easy experience compared to other platforms.

 

[leroyd]

Compared my Primare CD 32 used as a drive through the internal DAC of a Primare pre60 and compared it with an Innuos ZEN mk3 connected to the same DAC via USB connection. They sounded identical.

 

[Lawrence001]

It doesn't matter. The signal level will be identical regardless of the input.

I can confirm from much listening in several iterations of my system that the sound of a DAC can be very different between USB and SPDIF. It's generally a function of the usb convertor chip, the older ones pre XMOS sounded terrible. It's one recently they've got good enough to compete.

 

[Lawrence001]

You’re all right. My first tests weren’t good.
Now I’ve got my cd player and my zen hooked up both via coax, they sound exactly the same

First I had the Zen hooked up to the internal dac of the cd player but switching back and forth had a one second or so pause.

You can view this thread as unwritten!

What DAC are they connected to now, and was the Zen initially connected via USB?

 

[Ceko]

What DAC are they connected to now, and was the Zen initially connected via USB?

First it was like this:
Zen usb —> Line Magnetic 24CD —> Integrated
Compared to Line Magnetic 24CD —> Integrated (switching takes a second and you have to play from the start every time). Also this is not controllable from the listening seat.

Next I plugged in both the cd player and the streamer into a Topping DX3Pro via coax. Press play on both and then from listening seat I could easily switch between inputs via the remote.

 

[Ceko]

Then maybe I shouldn’t tell you that my Auralic Aries Mini into my Benchmark DAC2 sounds different to my Innuos Zen Mini playing the same FLAC files. And the same Zen Mini into my Auralic Altair G1 sounds different to the Aurlaic Altair G1. And that my Marantz UD7007 into my Benchmark DAC2 sounded better than the Aries Mini into the Benchmark. But the Cambridge Audio CD5 into my Benchmark sounded worse than the Aries Mini.

Don’t let my brains explode please

 

[Nopiano]

If the Zen mini can perfectly replay the original, why do they make the Zenith models and upwards? Asking for a friend!

 

[It Cost How Much!?!]

I have a Innuos ZEN III via a Gustard U16 SPDIF converter into my Wadia X-64-4 co-ax input. I also have a Wadia WT2000 transport that feeds in to the Wadia DAC via ST optical. The Innuos ripped my CDs into FLAC.

Every time, the CD transport is significantly better.

I find the same with my bedroom system, where a NAS drive goes via a Musical Fidelity SPDIF converter to co-ax on the Wadia 321, an Esoteric P-30 CD transport goes to a second co-ax input. Again the CD transport is better.

 

[rabski]

I know at least one manufacturer that suggests the same, in that CD transport still offers the best sound. On the other hand, didn't another manufacturer suggest that ripping a CD offers a better replay than the original?

As always, use your ears. I have, and here the original sounds better to me. However, it's an unfair comparison, because I rip to the computer and then replay from it, so the 'chain' is different - CD transport direct to DAC via SPDIF, computer via USB to USB/SPDIF converter to DAC.

Of course, digital is all the same, so we're all deluding ourselves

 

[CnoEvil]

On the other hand, didn't another manufacturer suggest that ripping a CD offers a better replay than the original?

Yup, Linn was one of those and gave these reasons: https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Why_Linn_DS_is_the_best_way_to_play_CDs

Back when they had just introduced their Digital Streamers - I certainly felt the DS sounded better than their CDPs when playing a CD vs the ripped version of that CD. Having heard that, I could understand why they were one of the very first to stop producing CDPs - which was quite a brave decision back in 2010.

 

[tricky1]

If the Zen mini can perfectly replay the original, why do they make the Zenith models and upwards? Asking for a friend!

more money for the manufacturer. My Casio watch is probably more accurate than a Rolex windup but is a fraction of the cost. Just cos there are bigger "better" models doesn't equate to them being technically superior at all.

 

[Nopiano]

more money for the manufacturer. My Casio watch is probably more accurate than a Rolex windup but is a fraction of the cost. Just cos there are bigger "better" models doesn't equate to them being technically superior at all.

Well, I think the hierarchy should hold up when they’re all made by one company. So I’d expect all Casios to be equal at timekeeping but the costlier ones probably have more functions or a fancy case.

Innuos seem to claim superior results, better components, upgraded power supplies etc.