Question Speaker Placement

A question.

vinyl4ever

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So in the real world speakers cant always be put in their optimal position, so to create the best stereo separation and reduce unwanted boomy bass what takes the priority.
1) Distance from the walls
2) Distance either side of the listening position
 

audio_PHIL_e

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So in the real world speakers cant always be put in their optimal position, so to create the best stereo separation and reduce unwanted boomy bass what takes the priority.
1) Distance from the walls
2) Distance either side of the listening position
How easy is it to experiment? You might find compromise possible in both departments
 
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MVJ

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One large factor is rear ported, sealed or front ported and in my experience it is a combination of both measurements.

I have front ported speakers and after lots of experimenting I have found equal distance from the rear and side walls + the right amount of toe in/out gives me superb bass top end & imaging.

I guess what I'm saying basicly is you'll need to find what will work for you but if you have a solid floor it will be much easier I think.
 

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So in the real world speakers cant always be put in their optimal position, so to create the best stereo separation and reduce unwanted boomy bass what takes the priority.
1) Distance from the walls
2) Distance either side of the listening position
For some Audio Note speakers, closeness to corners is important.

In short, there are no hard and fast rules.

Why do you ask? Just to have a discussion?
 
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vinyl4ever

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One large factor is rear ported, sealed or front ported and in my experience it is a combination of both measurements.

I have front ported speakers and after lots of experimenting I have found equal distance from the rear and side walls + the right amount of toe in/out gives me superb bass top end & imaging.

I guess what I'm saying basicly is you'll need to find what will work for you but if you have a solid floor it will be much easier I think.
I've vintage sealed Celestion Dittons. Have them approx 1m from side walls and 80cm from rear.
They are about about 2m apart and 2.5m from listening position (angled). Toe-in about 10°
Just asking for some feedback
 
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MVJ

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I've vintage sealed Celestion Dittons. Have them approx 1m from side walls and 80cm from rear.
They are about about 2m apart and 2.5m from listening position (angled). Toe-in about 10°
Just asking for some feedback
That sounds pretty much spot on to me Stewart👍 try a bit of micro tuning tilting toe in/out or height I've been shocked by how much difference a little movement can make patience is the key though.
 
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Sotosound

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I've vintage sealed Celestion Dittons. Have them approx 1m from side walls and 80cm from rear.
They are about about 2m apart and 2.5m from listening position (angled). Toe-in about 10°
Just asking for some feedback
How are the 33s sounding? Are you wishing for more of anything or less of anything, e.g. bass, imaging etc.?

I had a pair of 33s around twenty years ago but they had low WAF and I didn't know enough to get the best out of them.

I do recall, however, some magical and musical moments, possibly arising in part from their tweeters, which are rather good by all accounts.
 

vinyl4ever

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How are the 33s sounding? Are you wishing for more of anything or less of anything, e.g. bass, imaging etc.?

I had a pair of 33s around twenty years ago but they had low WAF and I didn't know enough to get the best out of them.

I do recall, however, some magical and musical moments, possibly arising in part from their tweeters, which are rather good by all accounts.
I really like them tbh. I'm fortunate enough to have my own dedicated listening room ( aka man cave) so they aren't subject to WAF.
This is my spend my pocket money hobby and tbh I'm surprised as I've kept these for 3 yrs now which is a lifetime for any of my kit.

I find them engaging but without having too much tiring upper treble but still have the clarity that my old ears require.
However I'm looking for some transmission line floorstanders just to keep the room interesting
 
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Nopiano

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Partly but also how much emphasis is placed on speakers for sound separation Vs the Cartridge
In a cartridge, channel separation is important because separation cannot be retrieved further along the chain. You can put the speakers at opposite ends of a room, but that isn’t ‘good separation’!

The speakers should be far enough apart to enable a proper spread of sound between the speakers. Too far apart and there’s a ‘hole in the middle’; too close and the sound stage is unrealistically narrow - like listening though a door to the concert venue rather than being in the auditorium.

At home, most speakers don’t like being too close to walls as they will tend to boom, and it may flatten the sense of ‘front to back’ depth perspective that you hear. Hence it is case of trial and error in positioning, after starting where the manufacturer suggests.
 

bencat

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All of the advice above is relevant and easily tried . I use sealed units I always place them as close to a back wall as possible as this gives the best bass boost but you do lose a little in imaging depth . In my Three way active using 4 KEF 103 I can get the image depth back by using DIRAC Live but I still prefer sealed units hard to the wall .
 

vinyl4ever

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All of the advice above is relevant and easily tried . I use sealed units I always place them as close to a back wall as possible as this gives the best bass boost but you do lose a little in imaging depth . In my Three way active using 4 KEF 103 I can get the image depth back by using DIRAC Live but I still prefer sealed units hard to the wall .
I'll try that configuration next time I have a couple of hours spare and see what results I get 👍
 

Strider

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My speakers are almost agnostic when it comes to placement in the room however toe-in has revealed where the optimal angle of attack/imaging is achieved.
I've got the ProAcs 56 cm (rear of cabinet) from the front wall, 100 cm from side walls, 250 cm tweeter-tweeter apart, 290 cm from speaker to ear, almost an equilateral triangle.
Once I got the speaker placement about right in the room I started spending days on getting the toe-in right to get a balance of soundstage and imaging, soundstage being the approximate dimension of perceived venue/recording space and rough idea of the instrument/performer position within the space between/behind/in front of your speakers. Getting the imaging right is much harder for me because getting wonderful deep/wide soundstage can often be at the expense of imaging - to little toe-in and a vocalist sounds like they have a metre wide head although the soundstage depth can be impressive it's also rather diffuse, like a broad brush stroke approach. Too much toe-in and the soundstage becomes much tighter and you can also lose depth and width however imaging could be much improved as the performers come into sharper focus/highlighted in the soundstage.
One thing that is also very relevant to both soundstage and imaging is where the tweeters 'cross over' (axis?) In front, directly at ears or behind your ears, Personally I've never understood why tor-in should be so severe that the cross over/axis is in front of the listener, for me this just creates a totally flat two dimensional soundstage.

My ProAc's have offset tweeters that are 80 mm from inside cabinet wall and this does decrease baffle diffraction that can assist in room placement, the tweeters can be placed inside or outside depending on wall boundary - I use mine with the tweeters on the inside.
My tweeters axis is probably a couple of metres behind my head so the toe-in angle is quite small but with the combination of boundary placement, distance from speakers etc I get a lovely deep and wide soundstage and in front of the speaker plane - this is important for me because a lot of setups I've heard the soundstage is only on the speaker plane and behind the speakers, with my setup is really does have a near perfect combination of soundstage and imaging, this is the icing on the cake for me because I can sink into the music and stop thinking about accuracy, recording quality, less than perfect mix or other 'hi-fi' pretensions.
There are so many recordings I have that I literally gawp at the cavernous soundstage yet I can pick out an individual drum position on the kit, where backing vocalists are stood, the height and width of a 'live' studio and a venue - man I can't get enough, I don't care if its artifice, my imagination or a trick of the engineer as long as I can sit back and be immersed into the music.
 

Strider

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Later on delving onto how placement of speakers in an average domestic room impact the slightly more but boring physics of frequency response, boundary effect, first reflection and blah blah...
 

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