Speakers Not Working In A Room

[Witterings]

When people are asking for advice on buying speakers you so often see the comment "Make sure you try them at home and they work with the room"
If speakers don't work with a room, what are the most likely issues they'll have, is it always going to be the bass or potentially problems elsewhere?

I have a pair of ProAc DR20's that are totally sublime with 95% of music but with the wrong - low / bass heavy track there's just a horrible and overpowering reverberance that kills any listening eperience.

I know people are going to suggest moving them around the room, changing what they're standing on, using Dirac, Giai Isolation feet and a number of other things and I've now tried pretty much all of them and still can't get rid of it with the current placement.

Things that worked are with the EQ on my WiiM pull the 31Hz slider way down .... but I don't want to be adjusting it for every track.
I've also found by pulling them out into the middle of the room it goes but they're never going to be positioned there apart from just to test them.

I had a demo pair of the speakers on trial before buying them and didn't notice it then, maybe there is some truth to speaker run in and my bass has become greater over time ..... OR I just never played a track that aggravated it before and as I play more, so I'm finding more tracks that do.

I did have 2 other sets of speakers before this, one for 15 years and the other pair for about 3 months and I didn't notice it with them so either it wasn't happening OR I've just happened on tracks that cause it as I'm now listening to music 5 times as much ... both of the other sets the bass port was on the front and wonder if that may suit my positioning better.

I'm sure people are going to be tempted to suggest trying bass traps / moving the speakers but unfortnately neither are options and isn't what this post is asking about.

Has anybody else had similar and changed their speakers and did it make a huge difference ... but also were there any areas they felt degraded after the change.

So frustrated, I tried so many speakers and hoped I'd found my forever set up and wouldn't know what to try next that may sound as good but help alleviate the problem.
Maybe some that don't dig quite so deep on the bottom end and combine those with a better placed sub if I felt it was needed
OR .... Keep them and buy an amp with bass management and set the crossover to send the lower frequencies to a sub.

Just as a side note I don't currently have a sub, the for my surround blew a couple of weeks back and I've held replacing until I decided if I wanted one that does music as well.

 

[tuga]

Things that worked are with the EQ on my WiiM pull the 31Hz slider way down .... but I don't want to be adjusting it for every track.
I've also found by pulling them out into the middle of the room it goes but they're never going to be positioned there apart from just to test them.

Even with optimally positioned speakers and listener there will always be exaggerated frequencies.
With sub-optimal positioning a bit of EQ to tone down the room-generated peaks can work wonders.

Moving the listening spot or changing the woofer height (with standmounts) will also affect the low- and sub-bass response, and you can also try plugging the speaker ports with thick socks.

Some people seem to opt for sub-bass deficient speakers to avoid triggering those resonances.
Some speakers use woofer arrays (2 or 3 woofers) to minimise room boundary effects, but multiple subs are the best way to achieve the flattest response at the listening spot.

 

[RecordProd]

It’s possible that your new speakers have a wider frequency range and go lower or a higher low frequency output and you’re exciting the room more with some tracks. First thing to suggest is moving them a bit, out from the walls? If you love the sound except for the odd record maybe live with it..

 

[tuga]

Things that worked are with the EQ on my WiiM pull the 31Hz slider way down

Have you measured a peak at 31Hz?
That seems quite low.

 

[RecordProd]

Have you measured a peak at 31Hz?
That seems quite low.

Probably quite a wide Q so pulling down a fair bit off bass energy?

 

[rocky raccoon]

As far as I know there are only a few solutions - as Witterings said.
Bass Traps
Moving your listening seat forwards/backwards
Moving the speakers away from the rear wall
Electronic room correction

The general concensus is try and get the room right with Bass traps and then resort to room correction.

Good luck .

 

[hiesteem]

Yes I had and still have similar problems with my speakers, Ruark Equinox.
I worked with the compromise because I like the qualities of the speaker and as Tuga says all speakers are going to excite a room and more so with fuller range speakers.
What has helped is good cables including mains cables. But more than anything the improvement comes as the signal improves in the front end and amplifier.
In the end a speaker will perform depending on everything feeding it and the room itself, all of which is treatable .
In the end it's a choice to work with your speakers or not.

 

[StingRay]

As far as I know there are only a few solutions - as Witterings said.
Bass Traps
Moving your listening seat forwards/backwards
Moving the speakers away from the rear wall
Electronic room correction

The general concensus is try and get the room right with Bass traps and then resort to room correction.

Good luck .

But bass traps have to be large for low bass. Many use room correction for bass, use room treatment for other frequencies.

 

[RecordProd]

Not everyone would be happy with as many bass traps as I have but they really tighten up the bottom end. There are far nicer looking traps available that can look nice but it depends on your style. I’d say always get the room and speakers as best as you can before resorting to EQ. Cough, I have more of them in corners too

 

[Snoopdog]

Wtterings

What is the interface between your speakers and the floor (do they sit on feet/platform etc.)?

What are the dimensions of your room and the makeup of the floor (suspended/floorboards over a void/solid concrete etc.)?

Getting rid of your bass issues may be as simple as optimising the speaker/floor interface to prevent bass energy being transmitted into the floor!

Some photos of your setup may be helpful.

 

[rdale]

Not everyone would be happy with as many bass traps as I have but they really tighten up the bottom end. There are far nicer looking traps available that can look nice but it depends on your style. I’d say always get the room and speakers as best as you can before resorting to EQ. Cough, I have more of them in corners too

I agree that there are many different looking and different shaped bass traps and some might prefer a white or other colour finish over a black finish like you have above. But more importantly they don’t have always have to be sat on the floor, and when sited at ceiling height in my personal opinion they can be quite unobtrusive or even enhance the appearance of the room.

 

[MartinC]

When people are asking for advice on buying speakers you so often see the comment "Make sure you try them at home and they work with the room"
If speakers don't work with a room, what are the most likely issues they'll have, is it always going to be the bass or potentially problems elsewhere?

It's not just bass. A 'modern' sparsely decorated and filled room with laminate flooring will for example absorb higher frequencies less than a carpeted room with lots of soft furnishings and shelves full of books. A speaker that may sound too bright in the former could be a good match for the latter, and vice-versa.

 

[Witterings]

Have you measured a peak at 31Hz?
That seems quite low.

I simply reduced all of the sliders one by one to see what difference each one made and that was the one that had the biggest impact in taming it.

Wtterings

What is the interface between your speakers and the floor (do they sit on feet/platform etc.)?

What are the dimensions of your room and the makeup of the floor (suspended/floorboards over a void/solid concrete etc.)?

Getting rid of your bass issues may be as simple as optimising the speaker/floor interface to prevent bass energy being transmitted into the floor!

Some photos of your setup may be helpful.

Hi Snoopdog,
This is what I was trying to intimate in my original post that I've pretty much looked at everything that may be causing it and tried varoius resolutions already.
The main area is carpeted with laminate under the carpet and screed / concrete under that. The carpet doesn't extend to the edges so the speakers are straight onto the laminate, currently with spikes, I've tried them without spikes, I've tried Gaia feet, blue tack, camping matt, carpet, camping matt and carpet .... all with and without spikes.

There are a few comments about bass traps and or moving the speakers .... in the original post I said that unfortunately these aren't options.

I think the only thing I can do is try different speakers, I did drag some bookshelves and stands into the room last night which massively reduced it but they're not enough for the room.

 

[bencat]

While i have no doubts about the issues the OP has there is part of me that finds this a little puzzling . I have done a few (not anything like the number of others on here) Wam Shows . In every case the room was different in shape and set up . This was the same for all those who exhibited but in most if not all cases they managed to achieve a decent level of sound quality with the equipment they brought with them . Huge differences in speakers from Klipsch to Kef to Quad to DIY actives right across the spectrum . No I am sure the results were often not perfection and the exhibitor was often a little frustrated that it did not sound as good as they know it should but in all cases they ended up with a prefectly acceptable sound that many who listened to it liked . So while one part of me wants to point at the speakers or the amp or any other piece of equipment another part me says well just work a bit more at it and you will find the solution . I was helped on more than one show by others coming in and suggesting a solution which not always but most times worked. Get some one else to come and visit and let them hear what you hear . I know that some of the issues we all have are in our heads and not in the actual sound being played . We all find faults that others can not hear . So get a decent second opinion and tell them they are okay to tell the truth about what they are hearing .

 

[tuga]

I simply reduced all of the sliders one by one to see what difference each one made and that was the one that had the biggest impact in taming it.

It sounds like a very blunt EQ system and approach.
Ideally you should measure the response then deal with the peak with a parametric EQ filter which will allow you to set the bandwith.

 

[savvypaul]

In my room, I've found that downward ported speakers work best either very close to the wall behind or pulled into the room by around 4 feet. It's the areas in-between that tend to excite the bass nodes, in my space.

 

[Lurch]

@Witterings I'm pretty much free Tuesday - Friday next week if you need a 2nd pair of ears. Give me a bell and we can sort something.

 

[Witterings]

@Witterings I'm pretty much free Tuesday - Friday next week if you need a 2nd pair of ears. Give me a bell and we can sort something.

Funnily enough I was going to give you a call tomorrow and come and see you as much as anything just to discuss and see if you had any thoughts.
If you fancy coming down here that'd be absolutely brilliant .... my only issue during the day at the moment is The Boss works in a school and is on holidays and it'd be when I'm "meant" to be working. Daughters also working from home and uses the room for telephone / video calls.
That leaves evenings / weekends but I also don't her to know I've got issues having sent what she considers an awful lot of money also knowing I lost money on some other speakers I tried ... just don't think she'd be overly happy.
Maybe liaise during the week if you're up for it as there'll be days where she's out with friends and daughter has to go into office / appointments sometimes so there'll be a window at some stage.

@bencat .... yes it's a good call .... only thing I'd say about the setup, I'm 90% sure the placement of one of my speakers is what's causing the issue.
I've attached a pic, in essence I think despite there being a few bean bags in there it's an echo chamber in the corner behind the TV but speakers I've previously had haven't "excited" such a response.

 

[uzzy]

One of the problems with transmission lines is they can drone at certain bass frequencies (well that was my impression with the ones I had). However they never swamped the music in my case.

You can try positioning the speakers further away from the side walls and slightly more forward of the wall behind. If that does not sort the problem then try covering the transmission port exit.

Also worth mentioning is to ask people if they suffer similar effects on the recordings causing you problems .. it could just be that they were poorly recorded? The fact this is only happening on 5% or less of what you listen to may point to this being the problem.

 

[Witterings]

Also worth mentioning is to ask people if they suffer similar effects on the recordings causing you problems .. it could just be that they were poorly recorded? The fact this is only happening on 5% or less of what you listen to may point to this being the problem.

I thought about poorly recorded today but also if it was my streaming provider that wasn't using a great version so I found some other sources for the same songs and the results were the same.
A few of them are David Gray - White Ladder and Sail Away, Beyonce - If I were a Boy, Rag'n Bone Man - Skin others not so bad since using Dirac are Tracy Chapman - Smoke and Ashes and Change.

Has anybody tried any of these guys products and with the corner ones so they have to go all the way up the wall or is one on each corner going to make much difference?
https://advancedacoustics-uk.com/collections/bass-traps