Speakers vs The Track That's Playing
- Thread starter Witterings
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But there was no distinction in the comment it was all pop is badly recorded . If the comment was current chart music or dance music then say so . If you think Fela Kuti , Kraftwerk , Lyle Lovett , Cassandra Wilson , Prodigy , Pointer Sisters and The Blue Nile are all 70,s rock then your catagories are very different to mine . I think the point I making is that it is fine to say this is badly recorded but you need to be specific and not throw out a huge generalisation of pop = Popular which covers a huge area . I should be used to this sort nonsense but I am suffering a lots with leg pain today which is making me tetchy so please feel free to ignore me if I go too far . In fact i may well bow out of this until I am more in a good head space .
It's difficult to see in your pic, but you ideally need to bring the speaker away from corner reflection and a reasonable amount away from the wall behind the speaker.
My suggestion is get your speakers positioned as best as you can by small movements and test by ear.
I think you have room correction on your amp?
It's important the signal and current produced mainly by the amplifier is maximized in controlling bass output from the speaker.
In the end especially as we move up in audio quality and speakers get bigger and more dynamic there is nearly always a compromise to live with as our home environment is often not able to contain the sound pressure created.
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I had the D30rs around for a week in a far larger area and I had similar bass issues. Some rooms are hard to tame. I might suggest re-arranging things: possibly swap out dog and armchair for TV and other speaker? With carpet and those bare walls I'd guess you are getting "pools" of bass --modes-- in at least the corner behind the TV. Your Arcam has some form of room correction/Dirac/DSP according to the website. Maybe play with that a bit. If that's a suspended wood floor, it's going to be hard to reconcile with the downward firing ProAc.
I would say looking at your speaker options which at best are restricted you would be far better with standmounts.
That would mean not needing to keep moving the sofa or speaker when you wanted to have a good listen. Even think about active standmounts like the AE1 actives in the classifieds at the price they are a superb buy and with a great waf factor they look superb and your bass issues will be cured as mine were going down the active route.
If you have room correction on your amp. that I would try first, after getting the positing right.
What type of floor do you have? I agree that suspended wooden flooring can be a problem.
What type of floor do you have? I agree that suspended wooden flooring can be a problem.
I have wondered if the corner behind the TV may be the main issue and in essence is providing an echo chamber.
It's laminate on screed which isn't so bad.
I would say looking at your speaker options which at best are restricted you would be far better with standmounts.
That would mean not needing to keep moving the sofa or speaker when you wanted to have a good listen. Even think about active standmounts like the AE1 actives in the classifieds at the price they are a superb buy and with a great waf factor they look superb and your bass issues will be cured as mine were going down the active route.
I did try some "large" sounding bookshelves from another room in there on stands and they were just a bit "lost" in the room.
I could possibly get larger ones but with 2 bouncy labradors, whilst floor standers aren't bullet proof I think they stand a better chance than standmounts.
We generally try and keep them out of there when we're not in the room but one of them seems to keep finding ways of getting in and the other follows. I recently found the stove had been pushed back and the flue was out of alignment and I'm fairly convinced it'd been when they got in there and been overly boisterous.
There have been a few comments about room correction / dirac and I have tried it before and found that overall it lost too much, strangely enough mainly in the bass and I didn't like it.
Maybe my best option is re-run it and keep it switched off most of the time and just switch it on when playing bass heavy tracks.
You should be able to tweak Dirac to get it right but I will let others guide you on that, I have not used it. I used a soundcard equalisation which worked well at my last house.
Have you tried moving the dog?
3 woofers may be overloading the room.
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I don't think pillows and cushions work as bass traps - they need to be at room boundaries and made of the right materials. You are more likely to kill the treble liveliness with the wrong sort of treatment. If you can fit triangular bass traps, such as GIK Tri-Traps or Vicoustic Super Bass Extreme Ultra in the front corners that is the tidiest and most cost effective way to start.What I do is work with what I like about the speaker. In practice that means for bass solid core cable tightens things up.
Interconnects will do the same if you choose correctly.
I have Ruark Equinox, now these take no prisoners when it comes to taming their bass.
I have had my amp serviced and this is a huge upgrade. Yes you would be surprised and a new Dac with sense on it. Basically treble and bass adjustment in one.
Bottom line is if you like the speaker, you can work with them.
All speakers will drive the room and imo
all are a compromise in some way, because they move air in the confines of a room. Also bass traps. I use pillows and cushions cos I ain't to bovered.
Hope that helps
With my current Russell K Red 150 floor-standers, it took a while to extract maximum boogie factor from them, along with best imaging, best-balanced sound etc., and this required the repositioning of my power distribution block plus lots of fine adjustments to speaker positioning (You push your speakers in, you pull your speakers out, in, out, in, out, and toe them all about...).
Smaller stand-mounts can still beat them in terms of imaging, and also in terms of speed when it comes to four beats to the bar disco kick drum loops, but not in terms of bottom end impact. Those lowest frequencies are always likely to reach one's ears in a slightly more leisurely fashion, having visited many parts of the room on their way.
In terms of Proacs with downward-firing ports, I tried Proac Studio 148s in my living room, and I found the bass to be over-enthusiastic, despite full carpeting, fabric-covered sofas, side tables, ornaments, pictures on walls, cushions etc. etc.. I also tried Proac Response D18s but found them to have an unpleasant detached bass plus a cold-sounding presentation.
In terms of "So Lonely", I'll have to play it when I get back from hols at the end of next week. I have it both on single and CD, and a comparison of their coefficients of dullness is therefore called for.
From what I can tell, however, I suspect that @MVJ is offering wise words, i.e. through really good speakers poorly produced recordings might well sound as though they were poorly produced. Also, having looked at your photo, unless you can achieve ideal positioning - which I doubt you can in that room - stand-mounts might serve you better, dogs permitting. Those D20Rs are likely to sound like bass bins at times in their current locations.
@bigrod also makes sense even though his username sounds as though he's bragging.
For fun, however, turn off the TV and throw a blanket over it. Then have a listen to your D20Rs. I'd be interested in the results.
Having said all of that, having a second pair of speakers can also help. I bought a pair of Q Acoustics Concept 20s on fleabay for £140, plonked them on my old Q Acoustics 2000i stands, sat back and enjoyed the ride. Even at full price, they're excellent value and a class act. They image better than my main Russell K Red 150 speakers, and they boogie very nicely. In fact, they're loads of fun, especially if I disable my critical listening processor and just focus on drawing pleasure from the music. Switching back to the Red 150s afterwards is also a pleasure, however, so it's win-win. Different speakers for different moods.
Smaller stand-mounts can still beat them in terms of imaging, and also in terms of speed when it comes to four beats to the bar disco kick drum loops, but not in terms of bottom end impact. Those lowest frequencies are always likely to reach one's ears in a slightly more leisurely fashion, having visited many parts of the room on their way.
In terms of Proacs with downward-firing ports, I tried Proac Studio 148s in my living room, and I found the bass to be over-enthusiastic, despite full carpeting, fabric-covered sofas, side tables, ornaments, pictures on walls, cushions etc. etc.. I also tried Proac Response D18s but found them to have an unpleasant detached bass plus a cold-sounding presentation.
In terms of "So Lonely", I'll have to play it when I get back from hols at the end of next week. I have it both on single and CD, and a comparison of their coefficients of dullness is therefore called for.
From what I can tell, however, I suspect that @MVJ is offering wise words, i.e. through really good speakers poorly produced recordings might well sound as though they were poorly produced. Also, having looked at your photo, unless you can achieve ideal positioning - which I doubt you can in that room - stand-mounts might serve you better, dogs permitting. Those D20Rs are likely to sound like bass bins at times in their current locations.
@bigrod also makes sense even though his username sounds as though he's bragging.
For fun, however, turn off the TV and throw a blanket over it. Then have a listen to your D20Rs. I'd be interested in the results.
Having said all of that, having a second pair of speakers can also help. I bought a pair of Q Acoustics Concept 20s on fleabay for £140, plonked them on my old Q Acoustics 2000i stands, sat back and enjoyed the ride. Even at full price, they're excellent value and a class act. They image better than my main Russell K Red 150 speakers, and they boogie very nicely. In fact, they're loads of fun, especially if I disable my critical listening processor and just focus on drawing pleasure from the music. Switching back to the Red 150s afterwards is also a pleasure, however, so it's win-win. Different speakers for different moods.
My favourite post.
Have you tried moving the dog?
3 woofers may be overloading the room.
A couple of weeks back, I took some clothes to a seamstress for adjustments, and she had a Black Labrador.
After barking at the door (as dogs do), this dog came up to me furiously wagging its tail and its body, and showing me the slipper that it had in its mouth.
Then it went off and returned, still wagging away, and showing me a fluffy rabbit in its mouth.
So happy and so welcoming, with no side at all. Labradors are wonderful creatures.
After barking at the door (as dogs do), this dog came up to me furiously wagging its tail and its body, and showing me the slipper that it had in its mouth.
Then it went off and returned, still wagging away, and showing me a fluffy rabbit in its mouth.
So happy and so welcoming, with no side at all. Labradors are wonderful creatures.
Have you tried moving the dog?
3 woofers may be overloading the room.
I've tried placing the other one in front of the other speaker to see if a matching pair acted as a good bass trap but she kept wandering off.
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