Stylus inspecting.

[The Abbot]

Hi chaps in this section. Not quite sure if a diy Q, or more of a general 2-channel Q but..

Getting twds 1.5 years or so, I can never tell if my stylus is still good, or showing signs of needing renewing. Your ears deceive you, frequently. So the best way, obviously, is to inspect the tip shape for obvious 'end of days' signs.

But this, afaik, involves having very expensive microscope gadgets. Which I don't have, nor could afford, nor warrant the cost for renewing a " budget " ( this gets my goat! £150? " budget " ? very bloody expensive to mortal man morelike) stylus.

So what are my options? How do I determine the state of my stylus? I did buy a £10 microscope eBay thing, but useless as setting up & then focussing was impossible. Binned.

I don't have a hifi shop within £150 miles, let alone one that knows what a cartridge likely even is.

Thanks, Abbot.

 

[lazycat]

It's a good question. My old way was to guesstimate the amount of hours played - this was when I was playing LP's 3-4 hours/day. Then anything over 1000 hrs it was probably close to replacement.

However, over the past few years my LP usage has become more erratic so that's out the window.

I listen for end of side distortion - I have none - I've at most done about 500 hrs with my stylus - during 2020 I didn't play much due to ongoing personal stuff. My cartridge sounds great and has lots of hrs left.

As for a microscope - you need a pic of a new stylus to have something to compare. So unless you're an 'expert', I wouldn't bother.

I'd still go for guesstimate hrs and listen for any distortion/hardening of the sound and go from there.

The best way to extend stylus life is to clean your records/stylus. Money would be better spent on a RCM than a 'scope.

 

[The Abbot]

@lazycat Hi there thanks for these wise words. Thing is as it's such a gradual process, any bit of slight grainyness or harshness, & having a naim pair of amps too, my brain can't decide if it's going bad, or its exactly as it always was!

I wonder if there's anyone who might have such a microscope.. I mean it's only 2 mins looking to see to determine. I wonder if I could send the stylus ( just a typical placcy removed end, it's a Shelter 201).

Or, anyone any other ideas how I could actually look at it?

Thanks Abbot.

 

[Jules_S]

I bought a loupe sort-of thing for a few pounds and it's good enough to inspect my stylus, but really only so I can check if it's clean or not, and if not, what cleaning method to use (AT "vibrator" for light dirt, VP goo for heavier contamination). Cleanliness is definitely fundamental to extending lifespan (and correct alignment & VTF).

As Simon rightly points out, unless you know what the stylus profile is supposed to look like when new (and probably what a totally knackered one looks like too) then you don't have much point of reference. Conical stylii are alleged to have the shortest life, followed by elliptical, and then the more complex shapes like the VdH, Gygers and Shibata. HOWEVER there is a lot of disagreement on this subject - read five websites / forums and you'll probably get five different opinions, including that conical lasts longer than elliptical.

You don't mention what your cartridge is but anything between 300 and 1000 hours seems reasonable. (Some people have reported much longer lives than this with good housekeeping but I wouldn't necessarily take this as a rule of thumb)

 

[lazycat]

It is a gradual process but if it's a bit grainy I'd say it's end time is close.

IIRC Audio Origami do a stylus inspection. May be worth an ask.

 

[The Abbot]

I bought a loupe sort-of thing for a few pounds and it's good enough to inspect my stylus, but really only so I can check if it's clean or not, and if not, what cleaning method to use (AT "vibrator" for light dirt, VP goo for heavier contamination). Cleanliness is definitely fundamental to extending lifespan (and correct alignment & VTF).

As Simon rightly points out, unless you know what the stylus profile is supposed to look like when new (and probably what a totally knackered one looks like too) then you don't have much point of reference. Conical stylii are alleged to have the shortest life, followed by elliptical, and then the more complex shapes like the VdH, Gygers and Shibata. HOWEVER there is a lot of disagreement on this subject - read five websites / forums and you'll probably get five different opinions, including that conical lasts longer than elliptical.

You don't mention what your cartridge is but anything between 300 and 1000 hours seems reasonable. (Some people have reported much longer lives than this with good housekeeping but I wouldn't necessarily take this as a rule of thumb)

I'll have a look into a loupey whatnot. I do use a diy rcm with my records, on my linn sondek/ mission 774.. albeit with diy solution. I should invest in some goo, but too many I can't choose.

The cart is a Shelter 201. I think eliptical. Thing is I have no clue what hours I've put on it. Nor when I bought it. If I had noted down each play of an lp, I'd be so concerned with my nerdirty I might well get depressed.

Abbot.

 

[Jazid]

Those USB microscopes are OK if you are patient. They are cheap (say £20-30 which I'm prepared to take a risk on) and so always have annoying flaws. Mine has a stand that has play and so the focus and field of view move in tandem. It claims 400x magnification which I doubt, but with a lot of care over positioning, lighting and so forth you can get acceptable and usable results such as below (an FR1 Mk3, bought with unknown hours). Remember that if looking for wear you're looking predominantly at the two sides of the stylus, not at the front and back of the stone, so the cart needs to be mounted vertically in a rigid clamp.

A hand loupe (10-20x magnification) won't tell you anything much beyond that it has a stone and that its not extremely dirty I'm afraid.

 

[lazycat]

If I had noted down each play of an lp, I'd be so concerned with my nerdirty I might well get depressed.

Hehe. For years, nay, decades I thought of buying one of those click counters when I bought a new cart/stylus. Never got round to it, mainly for the same reason.

If you think your stylus is end of life I'd treat it as such and think about a replacement. TBH that's what I would do rather than fanny around with microscopes et al.

A new sound is always exciting.

ps. I make up my own rc fluid, it's much cheaper and works just as well. Mine does anyway.

 

[The Abbot]

@Jazid Hi there thanks alot for this info. Yes this is the sort of magnifying I need, mounted & front on pov. £20-£30 hmm.. warranted if you're using £500 carts, but alot for me.

There's a nice little gap in the market for someone: offer say £5 for a photo like this of their stylus, £5 rtn RM & it's a worthwhile venture.

It looks like Im gonna have to try my absurd magnifying glass.. onto another one. Clamps etc. And get a tiny view. Its such a pain to do tho. If I can remember how.

Thanks y'all. Abbot

 

[The Abbot]

Hehe. For years, nay, decades I thought of buying one of those click counters when I bought a new cart/stylus. Never got round to it, mainly for the same reason.

If you think your stylus is end of life I'd treat it as such and think about a replacement. TBH that's what I would do rather than fanny around with microscopes et al.

A new sound is always exciting.

ps. I make up my own rc fluid, it's much cheaper and works just as well. Mine does anyway.

Hi lazycat. Would you remind me how you do your fluid? I mean rcm fluid.. not anything trouser-related.

I do mine but Im so fkn lazy it might well be appalling.

 

[FizzyPickles]

Even if you manage to look at it with the sort of magnification and clarity shown in the pic above, what exactly is it that you are going to observe with your eyes that will tell you that your ears are deceiving you? I mean aside from being damaged in some way, what does a stylus that is no longer fit for purpose actually look like?

 

[lazycat]

Hi lazycat. Would you remind me how you do your fluid? I mean rcm fluid.. not anything trouser-related.

I do mine but Im so fkn lazy it might well be appalling.

20% IPA
80% H2O. I use sterile H20 for dressings. If vacuuming I reckon any distilled/ ro water is ok. Others will disagree. lol
3/4ml ilfotol.
And for the smart-arses, I'm well aware this is about 104%.

I make it up in a small bottle so the above are a rough guess. I don't measure it out precisely. The bottle holds about 200ml.

I keep it in the fridge if there's any left. Used with a KAB EV-1, it seems to work well.

 

[Lawrence001]

any bit of slight grainyness or harshness, & having a naim pair of amps too, my brain can't decide if it's going bad, or its exactly as it always was!

Doesn't sound like your amps are helping much if you can't tell if your stylus is worn or it's just the sound of the amplification, do you actually like them?

 

[lazycat]

Doesn't sound like your amps are helping much if you can't tell if your stylus is worn or it's just the sound of the amplification, do you actually like them?

I used Naim amps for 25yrs. They were never grainy TBH, and well able to tell me if my stylus was coming to the end.

The OP has a stylus of unknown usage at purchase and has used it for 18 months. Obviously it depends on the length of play, but I'd be buying a new one TBH. It's not worth damaging the vinyl.

 

[Audio Al]

You can buy a usb microscope for under £20

 

[Jazid]

...what exactly is it that you are going to observe with your eyes that will tell you that your ears are deceiving you? I mean aside from being damaged in some way, what does a stylus that is no longer fit for purpose actually look like?

..Is the sixty four thousand dollar question

Assuming the section of stylus visible is maybe half a mil long (500uM), and the radius of the tip is 60uM, that means it's only the last 20% of the stylus that contacts the groove and wears, the rest is out of the groove. So those lovely straight sides mean nothing really, at least until they get quite close to the tip. Thankfully the stylus still appears in pretty good nick, I have other photos of it which add to that assurance, but I do think this is the limit with these cheap 'scope cameras. Also the resolution isn't going to be too sharp with cheapo cameras and lenses, and no NA figure is given for the lens unsurprisingly, I'd guess a minimum resolution of 1-2uM looking at the image? Really you need a good binocular 'scope with adjustable ring illumination, diffusers, filters, a scale or graticule etc etc, and some kind of image capture to get a really good image and thus demonstrable measure of tip wear I imagine, and that won't come cheap by anyones standards

Hey ho, it's still fun to look at styli through a 'scope!

 

[FizzyPickles]

So this seems like the way to go to me.

 

[The Abbot]

Even if you manage to look at it with the sort of magnification and clarity shown in the pic above, what exactly is it that you are going to observe with your eyes that will tell you that your ears are deceiving you? I mean aside from being damaged in some way, what does a stylus that is no longer fit for purpose actually look like?

I am taking that these are two rhetorical questions. Therefore I have no reply.

I'm not quite understanding this post.

But thanks anyway for reading myspiel FP.

 

[The Abbot]

20% IPA
80% H2O. I use sterile H20 for dressings. If vacuuming I reckon any distilled/ ro water is ok. Others will disagree. lol
3/4ml ilfotol.
And for the smart-arses, I'm well aware this is about 104%.

I make it up in a small bottle so the above are a rough guess. I don't measure it out precisely. The bottle holds about 200ml.

I keep it in the fridge if there's any left. Used with a KAB EV-1, it seems to work well.

Ilfotol.. crikey never heard of this! Ipa I'll look into. Sounds very exotic..

My recipe: in my fag packet sized squirty birty bottle: distiiled water, a drop of fairy, a wee dribble of screenwash.

I'll get me coat!

 

[The Abbot]

You can buy a usb microscope for under £20

I tried this but binned it.. such an ass to download the software, then even huger ass to focus & position both.