The best way to archive vinyl

[DomT]

Hello everyone

I will be archiving a load of LPs.  I know that some of your will say it's not worth it but it is as these LPs are not available in digital format and I am growing to like the easy access and round the home streaming that I can do with my ripped CDs; and I want to add LPs to this. I have a very very good (to my ears) t/t signal path Luxman PD171; Audio Note 2/2; Audio Note IO; Audio Note  S2 SUT; Trilogy 907 phono stage.

@tuga raised a really good point in another thread that recording LPs could have some problems due to ultrasonics if a higher resolution is used in recording. I would really appreciate some thoughts on the following:

1. Is there an optimum bit rate and depth to record at?

2. Tascam DA-3000 master recorder (no computer) VS record via Audient ID22 interface to Mac using LP software (Audient ID22 - 96k max but same circuitry as their £50k desks)

Many people in studio land use the Tascam to good effect and it's a simple set up especially as I can take the Tascam to where the t/t is located in the lounge. Using a Mac means things like auto look up of track listings and maybe some sound editing.  I am not so bothered about the later but I don't know what I don't know. Maybe it's possible to record to the Tacam and then import into the vinyl software.

I would like to make a start before Christmas and would be grateful for your thoughts - especially if they are hands on practical rather than theoretical.

Thanks

 

[Klassik]

I have no idea what's optimal, but I usually digitize LPs and just about anything else at 88.2k since I will often burn the resulting files to CD and it's preferable to downsample from 88.2k to 44.1k than from 96k.  The end result sounds great so I've never really worried about it.  The end result on the CD-R, or from the original 88.2k file, sounds just like the original LP/analog source so I'm not worried about it.

 

[tuga]

Do you intent to edit (EQ, remove clicks and pops, separate tracks, downsample, etc.)?

If you do intend to edit the files then 24-bit otherwise 16-bit is enough (most vinyl has less than 10-bit resolution, 11-bit at best).

As for sample rate, give it a try at 96 and 192kHz with a track that has a lot of high frequency content. 48kHz is enough but again for editing use 96kHz or higher.

.

Beware of clipping, digital clipping is nasty.

I'd listen to the whole track keeping my eye on the meter and adjusting for a -6dBfs maximum level (see below).

You may want to consider high-passing the file but this is something that is vinyl player-dependent and also record dependent.

.

This is a guide to digitising vinyl using Pure Vinyl, Amarra Vinyl and Vinyl Studio on a Mac:


Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl to Digital Files Using Macintosh


https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/guide-to-converting-analog-vinyl-to-digital-files-using-macintosh/

 

[uzzy]

Do you intent to edit (EQ, remove clicks and pop, separate tracks, downsample, etc.)?

If you do intend to edit the files then 24-bit otherwise 16-bit is enough (most vinyl has less than 10-bit resolution, 11-bit at best).

As for sample rate, give it a try at 96 and 192kHz with a track that has a lot of high frequency content. 48kHz is enough but again for editing use 96kHz or higher.

.

Beware of clipping, digital clipping is nasty.

I'd listen to the whole track keeping my eye on the meter and adjusting for a -6dB maximum level (see below).

You may want to consider high-passing the file but this is something that is vinyl player-dependent and also record dependent.

.

This is a guide to digitising vinyl using Pure Vinyl, Amarra Vinyl and Vinyl Studio on a Mac:


Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl to Digital Files Using Macintosh


https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/guide-to-converting-analog-vinyl-to-digital-files-using-macintosh/

:goodone:  

All I can add is I bought an HB  Burnit Pro which is a cd burner (with no copy protection and uses pc cdr or cdrw).   My intention when buying it was to archive my LPs to cd but in the end thought it was too much of a faff so I just use it to transfer albums to digital to then put on the SD card in the car radio.   I am no techy so cannot pass on the expert info given by Tuga above - all I can tell you is an LP transferred to CD on the HB Burnit pro gives you a recording that is only a whisker away from the LP reproduction (and so so much better than any AAD Cds I purchased of albums I have in my LP collection).

If I was going to go through the faff I would do as Tuga suggests above and use software to remove the annoying clicks and pops and inevitable scratches on some LPs .. if you can go through that pain then the resultant recordings should be highly satisfying when comparing to the original LPs.

 

[DomT]

Do you intent to edit (EQ, remove clicks and pops, separate tracks, downsample, etc.)?

If you do intend to edit the files then 24-bit otherwise 16-bit is enough (most vinyl has less than 10-bit resolution, 11-bit at best).

As for sample rate, give it a try at 96 and 192kHz with a track that has a lot of high frequency content. 48kHz is enough but again for editing use 96kHz or higher.

Tuga

many thanks for this and especially the link to the review. 

Tou mentioned ‘downsample’. I have no idea about down or up sampling. Surely I would record at a rate and then play back at that rate? Having listened to you and others I am more leaning to 96k but it’s not definite. 

I have no idea if I will edit files. I don’t edit photos. Would be really good to hear from those who have gone down this route already. 

 

[DomT]

:goodone:  

All I can add is I bought an HB  Burnit Pro which is a cd burner (with no copy protection and uses pc cdr or cdrw).   My intention when buying it was to archive my LPs to cd but in the end thought it was too much of a faff so I just use it to transfer albums to digital to then put on the SD card in the car radio.   I am no techy so cannot pass on the expert info given by Tuga above - all I can tell you is an LP transferred to CD on the HB Burnit pro gives you a recording that is only a whisker away from the LP reproduction (and so so much better than any AAD Cds I purchased of albums I have in my LP collection).

If I was going to go through the faff I would do as Tuga suggests above and use software to remove the annoying clicks and pops and inevitable scratches on some LPs .. if you can go through that pain then the resultant recordings should be highly satisfying when comparing to the original LPs.

Uzzy did you ever compare your Burnit to computer? Any reason why you chose Burnit?

 

[tuga]

Tuga

many thanks for this and especially the link to the review. 

Tou mentioned ‘downsample’. I have no idea about down or up sampling. Surely I would record at a rate and then play back at that rate? Having listened to you and others I am more leaning to 96k but it’s not definite. 

I have no idea if I will edit files. I don’t edit photos. Would be really good to hear from those who have gone down this route already. 

What I meant with downsample is if for any reason you might wish to "burn" your 24/192 recording into a CD which accepts 16-bit/44.1kHz only, f.e. to listen in the car as @uzzy mentioned.

This kind of down-coversion is better made from a higher resolution because you have to re-filter and re-dither. The further these two are (filter in frequency, dither in noise-floor level) from the threshold of CD the better.

 

[DomT]

What I meant with downsample is if for any reason you might wish to "burn" your 24/192 recording into a CD which accepts 16-bit/44.1kHz only, f.e. to listen in the car as @uzzy mentioned.

This kind of down-coversion is better made from a higher resolution because you have to re-filter and re-dither. The further these two are (filter in frequency, dither in noise-floor level) from the threshold of CD the better.

Ok thanks. Will never burn to CD and only use digital on drives now for home or outside the home. 

 

[uzzy]

Uzzy did you ever compare your Burnit to computer? Any reason why you chose Burnit?

I bought the burnit on a whim - also the thought of trying to hook the turntable to a laptop was a bridge too far - and the burnit also provided me with a spare cd player.   I used to use a minidisk in the car so the burnit to do LPs to cd seemed the ideal solution for me.  

I then found it had the added advantage of ignoring any copy protection on a cd so it allowed me to rip cds for the car.

I guess it is just the pure convenience - you decided to play an album - so just slot in a cdr or rw and press record .. the only problem is sometimes the gaps are not long enough between tracks so it does not do separate tracks -  but if you are going to transfer to pc to edit you can cut the tracks up then with the right software .. I sit with the remote and  pause and play to make sure tracks are not merged.  

I got mine second hand for £80 about ten years ago now - I had the chance of a better version using the Pioneer Stable platter mechanism and kicked myself for not buying it ... of course the long term problem will be when the laser dies will it be fixable (probably not) ..   

The final reason for the burnit pro was you can slam it into record mode (with no disc) and then hey presto I can listen to the streamer or the turntable on headphones (my system has no headphone socket) .. seems to work fine with my 600 ohm DT990s (and my previous AT911 600 ohms) ...  here is the spec of the burnit pro if you are interested  https://www.cnet.com/products/hhb-cdr830-burnit-cd-recorder/
 

 

[DomT]

I bought the burnit on a whim - also the thought of trying to hook the turntable to a laptop was a bridge too far - and the burnit also provided me with a spare cd player.   I used to use a minidisk in the car so the burnit to do LPs to cd seemed the ideal solution for me.  

I then found it had the added advantage of ignoring any copy protection on a cd so it allowed me to rip cds for the car.

I guess it is just the pure convenience - you decided to play an album - so just slot in a cdr or rw and press record .. the only problem is sometimes the gaps are not long enough between tracks so it does not do separate tracks -  but if you are going to transfer to pc to edit you can cut the tracks up then with the right software .. I sit with the remote and  pause and play to make sure tracks are not merged.  

I got mine second hand for £80 about ten years ago now - I had the chance of a better version using the Pioneer Stable platter mechanism and kicked myself for not buying it ... of course the long term problem will be when the laser dies will it be fixable (probably not) ..   

The final reason for the burnit pro was you can slam it into record mode (with no disc) and then hey presto I can listen to the streamer or the turntable on headphones (my system has no headphone socket) .. seems to work fine with my 600 ohm DT990s (and my previous AT911 600 ohms) ...  here is the spec of the burnit pro if you are interested  https://www.cnet.com/products/hhb-cdr830-burnit-cd-recorder/
 

Already have one. Was just curious as to why you prefer it to a computer (and higher but and depth rates) but you have answered that. 

 

[DomT]

Anyone else?

not sure if @Tune is still on here. I believe that you used a the same Tascam that I am getting. Any reason why you chose this route over using a computer?

 

[dannybgoode]

I needed to make exactly the same decision and ended up buying one of these:

https://www.denonpro.com/index.php/products/view3/dn-300r

I did look at a PC interface but the convenience of one of these compared with trying to get a PC etc set up in the hifi room made it a no brainer.  Records straight onto SD card so can simply drag and drop the files onto a PC and across from there onto my NAS drive.  Nice and simple and the SQ is excellent.

Got mine nearly new from eBay for £110.

 

[Gray]

I have no idea if I will edit files. I don’t edit photos. Would be really good to hear from those who have gone down this route already. 

After FLACcing my CD's, which I thought was time-consuming, I moved on to vinyl......and realised CD ripping wasn't time-consuming after all.

(A very kind man bought a Korg DS-DAC-10R and loaned it to me!)

It's amazing how the hours fly by once you; record in real time, divide tracks (ensuring that the side change gap matches the track gaps) manually* stamp down on pops and clicks, then manually add metadata and search / find / add the highest quality album artwork.

* I did experiment with software blanket pop / click removal, which I thought would be too good to be true - and it did indeed compromise the SQ, so I ended up zooming fully in on the clicks and pops individually and exterminating them with no collateral damage - which, though satisfying, took forever.

There's every chance they wrote and recorded at least one of the albums faster than it took me to archive it to digital  :dunno:

So if you're going to do it, you will naturally want to do it properly. It will take time.

Back up what you do (so that suicide doesn't become an option)..........or just stick to playing vinyl, like many will say you should do  .

 

[chrisph]

The "Vinyl Studio" software product appears to provide comprehensive support for archiving vinyl.  More details can be found at this site.

https://www.alpinesoft.co.uk 

I have never used it nor do I have any link to the company but did see it mentioned on another forum and the comments were quite positive.

 

[DomT]

I needed to make exactly the same decision and ended up buying one of these:

https://www.denonpro.com/index.php/products/view3/dn-300r

I did look at a PC interface but the convenience of one of these compared with trying to get a PC etc set up in the hifi room made it a no brainer.  Records straight onto SD card so can simply drag and drop the files onto a PC and across from there onto my NAS drive.  Nice and simple and the SQ is excellent.

Got mine nearly new from eBay for £110.

Hi Danny

This is why I like the idea of these sorts of units.  Would be good to hear your thoughts on the quality of the recording vs the original please.

Thanks

 

[dannybgoode]

Hi Danny

This is why I like the idea of these sorts of units.  Would be good to hear your thoughts on the quality of the recording vs the original please.

Thanks

I have yet to test it properly but will try and do so over the weekend and let you know.  My initial go sounded very promising but I will try it with a record I know well and see what I think.  I mainly wanted it to get all my house records onto PC.  I no longer have the luxury of mixing decks but have a stack of 12"'s I still want to play around but will try with a well recorded album.

 

[Tune]

Anyone else?

not sure if @Tune is still on here. I believe that you used a the same Tascam that I am getting. Any reason why you chose this route over using a computer?

Hi Dom,

I have a form of memory loss so only found out I was still an active member on here today!

The reason for the Tascam was that it was easy for me being a 50 something old fart. It works like an old style recorder and  I like the way that I play back with it.

I use USB Sticks with a selection of vinyl (for instance Blue Note or Motown). I just like the need to get up to change albums/tracks and to listen to albums without shuffling anything. It's authentic given the source.  I used the Tascam Hi-Res Editor on the laptop.

So in short. It's a generational thing Dom....

 

[Mondie]

Great to see you back posting Micheal. I hope you are recovering and feeling better.

 

[DomT]

Hi Dom,

I have a form of memory loss so only found out I was still an active member on here today!

The reason for the Tascam was that it was easy for me being a 50 something old fart. It works like an old style recorder and  I like the way that I play back with it.

I use USB Sticks with a selection of vinyl (for instance Blue Note or Motown). I just like the need to get up to change albums/tracks and to listen to albums without shuffling anything. It's authentic given the source.  I used the Tascam Hi-Res Editor on the laptop.

So in short. It's a generational thing Dom....

No worries and thanks for replying. I didn’t know that Tascam had a Hi-Rea editor so thanks for that.