The system is the measure of the man (or woman)?

uzzy

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Over the many years I have been in this game, both selling and as an enthusiast metting others and going to shows and bake offs, the realisation I have is, One man's musical nirvana is another man's earache.

As such it is wrong to "evaluate" someone else's system as it has been put together to please their ears and not anyone else. However visiting others and listening to their systems will allow us to determine what we like or do not and so is a helpful exercise.

What we learn in our journey is what we like and also in meeting others, is determining who has similar tastes to us and so when they say "such and such sounded great" we are likely to go and have a listen WHEREAS the opposite may be true where we were not enamored with the sound of a system.

I have come to appreciate that people have different perspectives of what sounds right and all we can do is to choose what sounds right for us. I for one do not care what others think about my system as the important thing is me and my family thinks it sounds fabulous and that is all that matters.
 

lazycat

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I'm not entirely sure that I understand the premise of the OP. We don't buy (or 'curate') our end game system at the start of the game, or even have any clear understanding of what the end game actually is, let alone have a plan of how to get there. That's because we begin by marvelling at how the first 'proper' hi-fi thing we hear sounds so much better than the radio in our dad's ford cortina. If we don't feel the need to stop at that point, it's usually because we still hear something wrong. And, that's when it gets complicated

Most systems do a reasonable number of hi-fi 'sound' things, at least reasonably well. Once you spend a certain amount of cash it's difficult to buy something completely hopeless. I could find positives in most (probably all) of the systems that I heard at Stoke, but wanting to live with any of them in the long term would be a different question. That's a comment about me, not your system.

If you want to know what is right for you then I think you have to get to be the best you can at knowing what is wrong for you. Someone here recently called it something like 'hearing the wrongness'. That's an experienced listener. Brilliant listeners can tell what is wrong within about 20 seconds. It takes most of us a lot longer, which is one of the reasons why there is lots of box swapping going on. One of the cheapest systems at Stoke was in the Lenco room. It was a fairly ubiquitous, bland 1990s combination of amp and speakers that I wouldn't usually think I would want to listen to, but it worked ok because it did nothing obviously wrong. It was probably considered a bit naff in hifi terms - resolution, transparency, dynamics etc - but it did not get in the way of the purpose of enjoying records. It wasn't created by any mission or higher purpose - they said it was what they had around at the time. But, there are systems that cost tens of thousands of pounds, and years to put together, that you couldn't pay me to take home, because for all the things they do that 'impress' me, they do something wrong that niggles me, despite everything else. In short, they do something that gets in the way of my music.

I always come back to the core purpose. I want to enjoy my music longer and deeper - I want to stay up later and later and I want more and more hairs to stand up on the back of my neck. When I think I've got enough of both, I can stop thinking about what's wrong. But you can't design anything near right before you know how to recognise wrong.

Many audiophiles appear to be seeking universal formulas to understand subjective taste. That is a waste of time. You have to become your own expert
Extraordinarily well put.

I have awarded you a cat.
 

eddie-baby

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One of the cheapest systems at Stoke was in the Lenco room. It was a fairly ubiquitous, bland 1990s combination of amp and speakers that I wouldn't usually think I would want to listen to, but it worked ok because it did nothing obviously wrong. It was probably considered a bit naff in hifi terms - resolution, transparency, dynamics etc - but it did not get in the way of the purpose of enjoying records. It wasn't created by any mission or higher purpose - they said it was what they had around at the time. But, there are systems that cost tens of thousands of pounds, and years to put together, that you couldn't pay me to take home, because for all the things they do that 'impress' me, they do something wrong that niggles me, despite everything else. In short, they do something that gets in the way of my music.
This true! That lenco room was pretty decent to be fair, and as you said there was more focus on the music I felt than the means. Although that could be said for any vinyl system of decent quality, which the lencos are.

They even had those pretty shall I say marmite B&Ws in that room, which I thought well if you're going to bring those at least show off their selling point that big yellow space age design driver! But no the tweeters were dented so exposing the fronts were not on the menu and considered perhaps a distraction from what the system was doing well. I enjoyed listening to music in that room.

I've often thought of doing a Wam Show on a shoestring, full sound system don't get me wrong but basically what anyone could buy without any great outlay. We all get caught up to some degree with the hifi merry go-round tho, it's hard to think well yes I'll go cheap but I'll just bring/add that bit as well. With most of our personal systems that bit never ends :)
 
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awkwardbydesign

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My system nowadays is built around what my wife can deal with. So no valves, as few components as possible, single speed TT, integrated amp with phono stage, combined CDP and USB DAC, and streamer.
 

audio_PHIL_e

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But I don't smoke, never have, have a vague recollection of being completely trollied one new year and having a cigar, but I may have dreamt it.
maybe you didn't dream it and if the recollection is that vague, maybe it wasn't a cigar ;) ... unless of course, you don't get invited to that sort of party!
 

toms wait

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Back to the OP and some of the comments. I have found that when I have had some spare cash, which has happened only once with a legacy from my Grandfather. I am ashamed to say that not only did the cash get squandered, having it did not allow me to make any great leap forward with my preferred sound. It merely made the buying easier and the wayward choices easier and more rushed, the impetuous youth, this was 20 years ago!

I have found a more measured and more successful route is slowly and methodically and as it happens fairly cheaply buying stuff you know/think/hope will add something or tame something.
Then tweaking and altering the balls out of it!
 

toms wait

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My system nowadays is built around what my wife can deal with. So no valves, as few components as possible, single speed TT, integrated amp with phono stage, combined CDP and USB DAC, and streamer.
I guess you're happy with that but I would find that difficult, yes SWMBO is relevant maybe in expense terms but in actual equipment terms I would rebel, a bit :)

Lucky for me my OH likes valves and is OK with big speakers. It is usually the cost constraints where our "discussions" lie.

It is me that wanted to reduce the box count recently, I just tired of how it looked, a random array of unsightly boxes in black and silver and grey. Now it is all silver and many less boxes.
I do still fancy big valve mono blocks sat on the fireplace though! One day.
 

Lurch

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I bought my first proper system in April 87 following a road to Damascus moment at a neighbours house where I heard my 1st proper separates system (Planar 3, A60, Kans). That system (Mantra, P77, Rotel 840 BX2, Celestion DL6 Sennheiser 440SL) was bought from one dealer based on what he had and referencing HFNRR et al reviews, as I had no real experience to base buying decisions on. In comparison to my then Sharps midi stack system it sounded fantastic and remained pretty much as is until 2016, apart from a change of speakers when I decided I wanted floorstanders so bought KEF Cresta 3 (as were in budget and looked nice 😂).
I re-entered the hifi universe with a vengeance in August 2016 following an inheritance and decided to treat myself to new (to me) kit as I'd had my current system 30+ years. Yes I was still as green when it came to assembling the new system, stupidly relying on my 80s magazine acquired knowledge, current reviews and eBay. I did manage to assemble a system that was better to my ears than what I'd been using, and following the advice of a seller who delivered an Icon Audio LA4, I joined the Wam. Damn that was my downfall and the start of my real hifi journey.
Not long after joining the Wam I decided to hold my 1st BO and showcase my new system to fellow nutters and also have a 2nd room so they could bring kit and play with it. BIG, BIG MISTAKE, during the course of the day various items got inserted into my main system, resulting in me with my Jaws on the floor on many occasions. My PS was an Icon Audio PS1 SE it was swapped for an AuroraSound Vida WOW! My amps IA, LA4 + 4x Mclaren 125M, replaced by a ModWright integrated then a Triode 845, again WOW! and so on it goes with each BO giving me more and more revalations of what's possible.
If it hadn't been for BOs attended of hosted I would not have built the knowledge I have now with regards the sound I do and do not like. Whilst my room is different to those I heard stuff in, that didn't matter as I made use of the tonality and flow to help me map the kind of sound I was after. Yes I like detail but not at the expense of musicality, something I learned from a kit purchase, as whilst it extracted loads of detail it took my system over that line between musical and hifi and I was often on edge or distracted when listening via it. I had been a detail hound up to that point, but not now if it comes at the expense of my level of engagement.
Not sure I've ever attached a tag or formed an impression of a person by looking at their system or the soundscape they've produced. The impressions I form of people in this hobby and elsewhere in life comes from my personal interactions with them.
 

awkwardbydesign

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I guess you're happy with that but I would find that difficult, yes SWMBO is relevant maybe in expense terms but in actual equipment terms I would rebel, a bit :)

Lucky for me my OH likes valves and is OK with big speakers. It is usually the cost constraints where our "discussions" lie.

It is me that wanted to reduce the box count recently, I just tired of how it looked, a random array of unsightly boxes in black and silver and grey. Now it is all silver and many less boxes.
I do still fancy big valve mono blocks sat on the fireplace though! One day.
My wife is a music lover as much as, or even more than, me. She actually educated me in music originally. She likes big speakers too, particularly the ones I build. And she is involved in the look and finish of them. But if she can't use it, it isn't worth having.
I have had the big SET monoblocks (Hello Keith!) and DHT preamps (type 26, and 01A), active system, etc.
I am watching an interview with Greta Thunberg as I type. Another reason for my changes is to reduce power consumption, so no valves or class A. But no class D at the moment either, until I am convinced by the sound of it.
 

Non-Smoking Man

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Understandably my initial post, and the punchy hardhitting title I gave it, has met with a mixed reception. (I have since amended the title to end in a '?', in order to soften it.)

But I am glad to see that an excellent debate has been triggered with many contributors - as i_should_coco once said to me, 'the most important thing is to contribute'.

The point I was trying to make is that there is a plethora of choices of kit to draw on these days and a number of new densely populated markets for accessories such as cables, racks and mains products. Thus the problems facing the hifi consumer in achieving good sound are much greater than 30 - 40 years ago.

Popula Hifi magazine use to have 3 or so divisions: low fi; mid fi; and superfi. You would be advised to get a Dual 505 for low fi (with a couple of alternatives), Rega 3 for the next div, say, and a Sondek plus a choice of 6 or seven arms and carts to go with it. Naim amps were marketed alongside and Linn and Naim speakers were the thing to have also. The Cranfield Rock never got a look in, though superior.

Alongside the High Street products there were left field enthusiasts using idlers in slate, valve amps and panel or horn speakers e.g., in Japan- this alternative area of the marketplace was boosted with the arrival from Denmark of Peter Quortrup, who revived high efficiency with importation of Snell Loudspeakers from the U.S. and SET amps. Voyd turntables figured here.

I was discussing this topic with Wizmax the other day and after explaining the post to him we sat down and ran through the familiar names back then ( we both wont see 60 again) - Quad, Rogers, Kef, Rega, Linn SME , Spendor etc and then we discussed how few American, Chinese and Eastern European products had reached these shores at that time. (There are 333 different manufacturing companies featured in our Owners' Club Wam thread of favourite brands at the latest count.)

(I am not into digital Hifi but surely, from what I can gather, this, again, is a recent burgeoning market with a highly competitive and complex group of equipment to understand and choose from.)

Thus you have to work a lot harder (or get lucky) to make a good sound, and you have to know more. Its an expensive business and your pockets can be emptied in no time at all.

Lurch's journey is an instructive one in that he developed his system via testing visiting equipment at his bake offs and buying to advantage based on the knowledge he had accrued. That was his selection process, another's might be to research a given field in 'library-based' or 'internet-based' reading. Some might select a dealer who had done the mixing and matching for you (e.g., Kevin Scott at Definitive).

Whichever way you look at it we face a difficult job and we are lucky if we can achieve a measure of success at it - and the harder you work at it the luckier you get.

And its to the credit of the individual when it goes well. And when it goes according to plan (against Savvypaul there).

Jack NSM

PS On my choice of title for this thread ('measure of the man'), I did not mean to imply that you can infer someone's personality (extravert, introvert, sociopath, egotist, elitist, depressive, philanthropist etc.,) from their hifi system - that would be ridiculous.
 
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bigrod

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It can be a forever increasing dilemma as we empty our pockets . At some point you have to say enough is enough and be satisfied.. I could certainly afford a better main system , but what it does for me is what I want both musically and visually. And with recent shows I’ve visited I would have to spend several thousand to better it ..What we have certainly reflects both myself and Diane
I certainly haven’t been overwhelmed by what I’ve heard recently..
They idea of building the mancave is that I can buy nice quality equipment for not much money and play around to my hearts content ❤️
 
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wizmax

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I was discussing this topic with Wizmax the other day and after explaining the post to him we sat down and ran through the familiar names back then ( we both wont see 60 again) - Quad, Rogers, Kef, Rega, Linn etc and then we discussed how few American and Eastern European products had reached these shores at that time. (There are 333 different manufacturing companies featured in our Owners' Club Wam thread of favourite brands.)
or 70 for that matter
 

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