There is no such thing as digital

George 47

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Interesting article with Gordon Rankin (inventor of asynchronous USB), Steve Silberman (Audioquest) , Charles Hansen (Ayre) with questions such as:

digital is envisioned as being just 0s and 1s and therefore there there isn't room for errors; is that true? ......NO......

Is jitter that important?

http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft

 

browellm

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Great rebuttal in the comments

"Digital engineers have gone through years of training where these problems were never mentioned." Really? All those computers and no one ever realised they had to get the 1's and 0's from one place to another, using wires, with an imperfect voltage for '1' and another imperfect voltage for '0'? And they never figured out how to make it work, get those digits from place to place without corruption? Pull the other one."There is an entire generation of designers that lacked even a basic understanding of analog electronics." That must explain why analog circuit performance over the last 30 years has gone all to heck? Oh wait, no, it's actually gotten better and better and gone from strength to strength. That must have happened while Hansen had his back turned, and via the efforts of non-engineers. Not likely.

"We live in an analog world"

Actually we live in a world that can be described in terms of waves AND particles. Continua AND quanta. Even the human ear and its nerves ultimately reduce the stimulae to quanta. That's NOT analog, BTW, so Hansen is making crass and childish generalisations as if they are the ultimate imperative in support of his argument, when in fact it is just crooked thinking and possibly deliberate deception, depending on how smart he is.

"How much energy is wasted delivering the data seems to have an effect on sound."

SEEMS to? Prove it. And don't blithely say it until you have proven it. And not how much energy it takes, but how much energy is WASTED. So let me see now, if the data comes from a downloading website server in USA to me in Australia, that must take a lot more energy to deliver than if it is sitting on my hard drive at home, so it must sound a lot worse, right? Well, um, no. And then the very next sentence.....

" with increased energy usage the amount of EMI/RFI radiation also increases. This might be a reason why applications sound different."

Bitperfect applications sound different? Prove it. And Gordon, don't ask me to hold my breath while you try. Notice the clever way he swaddles the contentious part of his statement, about apps sounding different, as a presumption while he appears to be making an uncontentious statement that RF energy goes up with increased HF energy usage. This is exactly the sort of 'sandwich technique' that I described in my first posted comment.

I see I have only gotten through 20% of the article, but sadly I am out of time. But you get my drift. The thought that there is a part II is truly disturbing......
 
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rdale

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Great rebuttal in the comments
Each to his own, for one person the above comments might be a 'Great rebuttal'. But not for me personally.

One telling sentence:

"I see I have only gotten through 20% of the article, but sadly I am out of time. But you get my drift. The thought that there is a part II is truly disturbing......"

He can't be bothered to read the article, and yet he finds time to write about 5-6 lengthy and rude comments about the interview.

 

browellm

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But correct.

And typically, like many audio fantasists you have done your trick of selective reading.

What he wrote was that he had commented on 20%, not that he had only read 20% of it.

 

awkwardbydesign

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"Digital engineers have gone through years of training where these problems were never mentioned." Really? All those computers and no one ever realised they had to get the 1's and 0's from one place to another, using wires, with an imperfect voltage for '1' and another imperfect voltage for '0'? And they never figured out how to make it work, get those digits from place to place without corruption? Pull the other one.

Would be nice if they did get there without corruption. Our computer frequently has problems, at the moment there is a "communication problem" with the printer.

 

browellm

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"Digital engineers have gone through years of training where these problems were never mentioned." Really? All those computers and no one ever realised they had to get the 1's and 0's from one place to another, using wires, with an imperfect voltage for '1' and another imperfect voltage for '0'? And they never figured out how to make it work, get those digits from place to place without corruption? Pull the other one.Would be nice if they did get there without corruption. Our computer frequently has problems, at the moment there is a "communication problem" with the printer.
LOL, so that's evidential is it? :rofl:

 

AmDismal

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Our computer frequently has problems, at the moment there is a "communication problem" with the printer.
It's a driver issue, compounded by user fail :^

 

rockmeister

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anyway he spelt 'got' as 'gotten' so his education, and therefore his hypothesis, is suspect.

Bloody americans. Did you hear at Wimbeldon, an american umpire say "One ZERO"?

ZERO??????? It's 'LOVE' moron. Jesus.

 

Muddy Funster

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But correct.And typically, like many audio fantasists you have done your trick of selective reading.

What he wrote was that he had commented on 20%, not that he had only read 20% of it.
Actually, what he wrote was "I see I have only gotten through 20% of the article"

That could be interpreted to mean either state. If you are going to criticise people for selective reading, it's best not to do it yourself.

 

pmac

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anyway he spelt 'got' as 'gotten' so his education, and therefore his hypothesis, is suspect.Bloody americans. Did you hear at Wimbeldon, an american umpire say "One ZERO"?

ZERO??????? It's 'LOVE' moron. Jesus.
Spelt? Some sort of wheat I believe.

Did you mean spelled?

 
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hearingisbelieving

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But correct.And typically, like many audio fantasists you have done your trick of selective reading.

What he wrote was that he had commented on 20%, not that he had only read 20% of it.
Actually Mark he said he had gotten through 20% of the article which can be interpreted either way - so you have just proven your own trick of selective reading:geek:

I dont support what is written in the article btw and I quite like the comments that he did make.

- - - Updated - - -

edit: lol I see MF beat me to it whilst I was typing this...

- - - Updated - - -

anyway he spelt 'got' as 'gotten' so his education, and therefore his hypothesis, is suspect.Bloody americans. Did you hear at Wimbeldon, an american umpire say "One ZERO"?

ZERO??????? It's 'LOVE' moron. Jesus.
Calm down dear its a bloody sport and his announcing of the scores is still entirely accurate.

 

browellm

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Actually, what he wrote was "I see I have only gotten through 20% of the article" That could be interpreted to mean either state. If you are going to criticise people for selective reading, it's best not to do it yourself.
I don't think so Funsterihno, why would he say "I see I have only gotten through 20% of the article" in the present tense, because the reading of the article was was done in the past tense? He's saying that he has only commented on 20% of the article and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

If he had said "I only got through 20% of the article", the emphasis towards your assertion shifts markedly. But he didn't and it doesn't.

 

rockmeister

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Spelt? Some sort of wheat I believe.Did you mean spelled?
yes yes...gluten free bread of course.

He gluten free breaded the word got as gotten.

What's the problem?

Oh and Chris, are you english?

The behaviour and language at Wimbledon is the last bastion of everything good and holy about this land. Calm down indeed.

You may as well agree to sell the crown jewels to the French for a bit of cheese.

 

pmac

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yes yes...gluten free bread of course.He gluten free breaded the word got as gotten.

What's the problem?

Oh and Chris, are you english?

The behaviour and language at Wimbledon is the last bastion of everything good and holy about this land. Calm down indeed.

You may as well agree to sell the crown jewels to the French for a bit of cheese.
Might be tempted if it is Roquefort



 

AmDismal

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anyway he spelt 'got' as 'gotten' so his education, and therefore his hypothesis, is suspect.
"Gotten" is actually an old term that conveys a useful nuance that was lost to British English (and, it seems, on you).

 
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browellm

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I can offer reading comprehension courses to anyone. Special rates for journalists.

 

pure sound

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yes yes...gluten free bread of course.He gluten free breaded the word got as gotten.

What's the problem?

Oh and Chris, are you english?

The behaviour and language at Wimbledon is the last bastion of everything good and holy about this land. Calm down indeed.

You may as well agree to sell the crown jewels to the French for a bit of cheese.
Isn't the use of 'love' from the French 'l'oeuf'? Shouldn't the correct terminology be 'nowt' or 'bugger all'?

 

rockmeister

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"Gotten" is actually an old term that conveys a useful nuance that was lost to British English (and, it seems, on you).
and you think he knew that when typing the word do you?

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't the use of 'love' from the French 'l'oeuf'? Shouldn't the correct terminology be 'nowt' or 'bugger all'?
What have eggs to do with it? Only a Frenchman could bring food up during a tennis match (see the witty double entendre there?)

I quite like 'bugger all' tho, saxon in origin?

ps. Sorry george for this silly HiJack...now leaving the stage. :)

 

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