Thinking of changing my Dali rubicon 8s back to Opticon 8s

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Blacksabbath25

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Ever since i brought my Dali rubicon 8s i have felt underwhelmed by them and keep thinking my old Dali Opticon 8s just sounded a lot better on the bass department .

The treble on the Rubicons are very good and open but i think the bass is to deep or just doesn't come across the same way the opticons did and you would think the rubicon 8s would be a lot better speaker giving there price tag as the Opticon 8s are a cheaper speaker .

the only difference between the rubicon & Opticons are the Opticons have a larger bass drivers and the cabinets are bigger plus they are a 3 way design and the rubbicons are a 2 and half something design .

And the frequencies are a little different

The only changes i made from changing from my old speakers are the Gaia 3 feet for the Rubicon and i am using the ADI-2 DAC and i have moved the rubbicon so Meany times to get that sound i had with the opticon 8s but just can not get that magic back i lost so now regret upgrading to the rubicons that i have had for the last 2 years .

So thinking of selling the rubicon 8s and going back to the Opticon 8s again but the trouble is now they are called the opticon 8 mk2s so do not want to make a mistake again changing .

Or i thought of taking out the 2 things that are diffrent in the chain which are the gaia feet and putting the spikes on and taking out the DAC to see what this does .
 

CnoEvil

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If in the mood to change - why not add other brands into the mix, just to make sure that Dali holds the prime position for you.

If sticking with Dali - if possible, live with the two speakers comparing them in situ, just to make sure your memory of the Opticons isn't rose tinted........then go with what you prefer.

I think putting things back the way they were is a sensible move - in case changing speakers doesn't solve the problem.
 

bencat

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I would also suggest that you hold off until you can source a used pair of your origainal Dali Opticon 8s as the latest incarnation may not be voiced the same .
 
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Blacksabbath25

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You see my thinking was the cabinet size , driver size is what made the difference with the opticon 8s and the fact they where a proper 3 way design .

where the rubicons are a different design but much better cabinet quality .

But nothing in my setup has changed from the opticon days only the DAC and the Gaia feet and the rubicons that's it

Maybe the rubicons are better suited to softer music like pink floyd which the rubbicons sound very good but if i change the music to hard rock or thrash music then i think they struggle where the opticons didn't
 

nomore landings

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In my experience, the Rubicon 6s proved very difficult to position. Eventually got them sounding as hoped with GAIA feet and GIK base traps- even moving those affected the bass! Changing to Epicons, they were placed exactly where the Rubicons sat and are spot on - never been moved a cm. The Rubicons now front my AV and have no problems in that larger room, still on the GAIAs. No doubt room acoustics can be a very frustrating business and perhaps the Opticon 8s better suit your room. Good luck.
 

Blacksabbath25

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In my experience, the Rubicon 6s proved very difficult to position. Eventually got them sounding as hoped with GAIA feet and GIK base traps- even moving those affected the bass! Changing to Epicons, they were placed exactly where the Rubicons sat and are spot on - never been moved a cm. The Rubicons now front my AV and have no problems in that larger room, still on the GAIAs. No doubt room acoustics can be a very frustrating business and perhaps the Opticon 8s better suit your room. Good luck.
I think also the rubicons do go lower on the bass side which could colour the sound a bit when pushed to a higher volume
 

lostwin

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I think you have gone the right way with isolation but Gaia III’s will be close to their upper weight limit with the Rubicons. Reckon you should get a set of II’s to try out and also contact Townshend directly for a quote on a set of podiums. Both should be available on a sale or return basis.
 

Blacksabbath25

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I bought the Rubicon 8s about 16 months ago and remember first thought when I first got them that the bass was on the heavy side but putting the Gaia on them reduced that bass Wight a bit .
I even phoned the shop up richer sounds and spoke to the chap I ordered them with and he said about putting bungs in the back I thought no way that just ruins the sound and just wastes the price I paid for the speakers .
As they where a special order from richer sounds the chap I ordered with said as they where a special order we can not take them back as we can not sell them in without a lose .
You just can not demo speakers like this so it was a gamble and one I hate making on expensive speakers .
So to be honest that's why I asked on here to see what it is with these speakers that are wrong when the Dali option 8s sounded right on all types of music .
I hate to no what I could sell them on for if the speakers are not right for my room even through the cabinet size is smaller then the optician 8s
 

Lawrence001

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I know a few people who have upgraded to a higher speaker model and been disappointed. Part of the problem is they struggle to understand why and worry they don't have good ears, or don't appreciate "proper" hifi. It's important to not think this way, and realise that a system is always better for you if you prefer it.

The point about revealing weaker upstream components is a valid one however. If you want to discount this possibility you'll have to borrow or buy better components (or take the speakers somewhere with better equipment to try).
 
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Lawrence001

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If you can take the dac out and go back to what you had before, why haven't you tried it? seems like a no brainer to me.
 

Blacksabbath25

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I know a few people who have upgraded to a higher speaker model and been disappointed. Part of the problem is they struggle to understand why and worry they don't have good ears, or don't appreciate "proper" hifi. It's important to not think this way, and realise that a system is always better for you if you prefer it.

The point about revealing weaker upstream components is a valid one however. If you want to discount this possibility you'll have to borrow or buy better components (or take the speakers somewhere with better equipment to try).
I've only heard the Rubicon 6s with the sugden class A and a luxman class A and a A-B class but my Yamaha A-S3000 is a keeper as I used it as a building block to get the sound I was after so everything sounding perfect before I feel I got greedy and changed the optician for Rubicon so it's has be something to do with the Rubicon.
So I've lost the balance with the speakers by changing them I think .
 

Ceko

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If you ask me, speakers are the most pronounced part of your system. So if you don’t like the sound, you can change components all you want but in the end you’ll end up getting new speakers anyway.
So best thing to do would be to get your old beloved Opticons back somehow.

Is swapping them for another brand at another retailer an option? Maybe other brands offer you the kind of sound you’re looking for?
 

Blacksabbath25

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If you ask me, speakers are the most pronounced part of your system. So if you don’t like the sound, you can change components all you want but in the end you’ll end up getting new speakers anyway.
So best thing to do would be to get your old beloved Opticons back somehow.

Is swapping them for another brand at another retailer an option? Maybe other brands offer you the kind of sound you’re looking for?
I would consider changing them for a different brand of speaker but worried of making a mistake again and considering when you start spending Rubicon money most places do not stock high-end speakers so it ends up as a special order which ones you get then gone and di not like them your stuck with them .
Personally I like speakers that are very detailed , bass in the right places and the right amount of bass weight and feel open and separated instruments that sound natural as well as vocals .
But the speaker needs to be well made and I can throw any kind of music at them without them turning hard when you turn the volume up .
I would mainly go for a 3 way speaker design and the have to be floor standing speakers that do not sound boxey if that helps .
Budget not sure about as I am not sure what the Rubicon would sell for as they are not that old .
I did think about getting the epicon 6s but might be in the same boat as the Rubicon .
 

Lurch

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Audition some Martin Logan Summits, bass is tuneable (+/- 10dB at 25 & 50 Hz) with the panels taking over at 270Hz. Bass down to 23Hz that is tight and punchy + mids and hf is sweet, detailed & open, they also don't care what music you throw at them.
 

Iceman 16

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I think it’s only you who can decide and choose which speakers you like and work best in your room. For that amount of ££ you must audition at home to avoid disappointment and hassle in the future. Make a list of speakers that‘s within your budget and narrow it as you go on. Don’t rush and get too excited. You patience will be rewarded. 👍
 

tuga

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I even phoned the shop up richer sounds and spoke to the chap I ordered them with and he said about putting bungs in the back I thought no way that just ruins the sound and just wastes the price I paid for the speakers .

Why would you think that?
Many manufacturers sell their speakers with bungs to change the low-end output and allow more flexibility with positioning and room integration.

Why not trust the chap and experiment with positioning with and without the bungs?
 

Blacksabbath25

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Why would you think that?
Many manufacturers sell their speakers with bungs to change the low-end output and allow more flexibility with positioning and room integration.

Why not trust the chap and experiment with positioning with and without the bungs?
Mine never came with bungs i would have to buy them separately i did try with socks as this is what i had at hand and with positioning I've moved them more times then dancing the can can .
 

tuga

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Mine never came with bungs i would have to buy them separately i did try with socks as this is what i had at hand and with positioning I've moved them more times then dancing the can can .
The Opticon port is tuned to 33Hz and that of the Rubicon is tuned to 29.5Hz, not that much of a difference there. But the latter is producing the bass notes over a larger area which in theory will give a more even balance at the listening spot but a woofer that is higher or lower may be trigering a mode that wasn't previously offensive...

If you have a smartphone you could measure the response and apply DRC EQ on the DAC but your analogue sources would still be "booming".

How a speaker will interact with your room is not something that can easily be predicted. Measurements will tell you if a speakers is flat in the bass, if the port is well damped, if the load is too low, and the topology will give hints to how the bass will integrate in the room but that is about it. Even someone else's experience in another room won't be of much help if your room is tricky.

The only option is to try speakers in your own room unfortunately. If like me you buy used they you can sell if they are not ideal without much of a loss.

Buying medium-sized standmounts and a pair of subs might be the best option for problematic rooms, DRC will help too.
 
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