Thinking of changing my Dali rubicon 8s back to Opticon 8s

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nomore landings

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I would consider changing them for a different brand of speaker but worried of making a mistake again and considering when you start spending Rubicon money most places do not stock high-end speakers so it ends up as a special order which ones you get then gone and di not like them your stuck with them .
Personally I like speakers that are very detailed , bass in the right places and the right amount of bass weight and feel open and separated instruments that sound natural as well as vocals .
But the speaker needs to be well made and I can throw any kind of music at them without them turning hard when you turn the volume up .
I would mainly go for a 3 way speaker design and the have to be floor standing speakers that do not sound boxey if that helps .
Budget not sure about as I am not sure what the Rubicon would sell for as they are not that old .
I did think about getting the epicon 6s but might be in the same boat as the Rubicon .
In my room, the Epicon 6s are all I could ever wish for after 49 years of hifi ownership. Kick drums delivered without boom or overhang. Cellos are a joy. John McVies bass lines tuneful - I saw them live back in the day in a small auditorium. Your Yamaha Amp is indeed a keeper. I cannot say that the Epicons are right for your room, but can vouch for a big uplift over Rubicon. I started with Ikon 6, Opticon 6 and although all have 6.5 inch dual woofers and the hybrid tweeters, all sound different. I procrastinated over the Epicons, but the cost was soon forgotten. Try Nintronics who gave me a great deal and trade in. Personal delivery was excellent. Do agree, a home demo a must.
 

Blacksabbath25

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The Opticon port is tuned to 33Hz and that of the Rubicon is tuned to 29.5Hz, not that much of a difference there. But the latter is producing the bass notes over a larger area which in theory will give a more even balance at the listening spot but a woofer that is higher or lower may be trigering a mode that wasn't previously offensive...

If you have a smartphone you could measure the response and apply DRC EQ on the DAC but your analogue sources would still be "booming".

How a speaker will interact with your room is not something that can easily be predicted. Measurements will tell you if a speakers is flat in the bass, if the port is well damped, if the load is too low, and the topology will give hints to how the bass will integrate in the room but that is about it. Even someone else's experience in another room won't be of much help if your room is tricky.

The only option is to try speakers in your own room unfortunately. If like me you buy used they you can sell if they are not ideal without much of a loss.

Buying medium-sized standmounts and a pair of subs might be the best option for problematic rooms, DRC will help too.
To be honest i am not a fan of standmount speakers as they sound like a box to me but floor standing speakers do not .
My old Opticon 8s had a much bigger bass drivers on them and the cabinets where bigger but not by much and didn't get any trouble from the opticon 8s with bass which confuses me but the rubicon are different .

Going to have a play around today and take things back to basics and see what this does
 

hiesteem

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So I've lost the balance with the speakers by changing them I think .
Speakers always drive the room. I would suggest any new speaker is going to sound different in the same room. I have never lived with a Dali speaker, but did buy a speaker which I really liked, but had to experiment with cables and room positioning and acoustic dampening across the back walls before I got it to sing in my room.
Also in my experience, a better speaker has to be fed the best signal you can give it, to show it's magic.
I am sure it's a better speaker than the speaker it replaced, but whether or not you want to experiment and develop the system a bit
to bring through it's quality is up to you.
 

Blacksabbath25

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Speakers always drive the room. I would suggest any new speaker is going to sound different in the same room. I have never lived with a Dali speaker, but did buy a speaker which I really liked, but had to experiment with cables and room positioning and acoustic dampening across the back walls before I got it to sing in my room.
Also in my experience, a better speaker has to be fed the best signal you can give it, to show it's magic.
I am sure it's a better speaker than the speaker it replaced, but whether or not you want to experiment and develop the system a bit
to bring through it's quality is up to you.
I am happy with my amplifier as that's how i found my magic and built around the Dali opticon 8s and i am using the same cables that i used with my opticon 8s which the speaker cables are audio quest solid core cables .
The only thing i changed was the speakers , gaia feet , Dac that's it .
Not sure what improvement in buying a better streamer is going to do as its mostly about the Dac inside anyway and i still use my CD player .
I kind of stopped box swapping ages ago i just thought at the time buying the rubicon would be a step up which they are in there own way but depends what music you feed them as i am not the biggest bass fan in the world .
The rubicons show a bad recording i reckon so if the recording has been mixed on the bass heavy side it shows
 

hiesteem

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The rubicons show a bad recording i reckon so if the recording has been mixed on the bass heavy side it shows
Do you think, it might be that your speakers are allowing more music through your upstream equipment? I always feel that different speakers can be the most significant change in the characteristics of a system. Because of this, I am not surprised at your response to it.
I have done a lot of work on my electronics, mostly services and upgraded parts, only buying a new DAC.
This alone shows more of the recording quality and sometimes lack of quality of the cd albums I buy nowadays.
If I were in your position, I would not throw more money at the problem, at this stage.
Instead, I would tweak the system.
Bringing the bass through or tightening the bass, is more about taking out vibration and distortion.
Certainly worth experimenting with speaker feet/plinth and placement. Placement alone can reduce bass and bring it into alignment with the rest of the frequency response.
I placed Isopods underneath my Cd which took away distortion and cleaned up the signal significantly enough to hear the difference.
Cheapest upgrade I ever made at £18.
 

Ceko

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Nasty thing with these kinds of thoughts (upgrading speaker) is that somehow you always want to go bigger / more expensive. But maybe for you, your Opticons were just better suited for your room. If I was in your shoes I’d just sell the Rubicons and buy some new Opticons again.
 

DomT

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@Blacksabbath25 i really feel for you. I remember when you bought your turntable a year or so ago and you were so happy with it. It’s such a gamble with speakers. The safest thing to do is to go back to the speakers that you had before and accept any losses and then don’t change anything else and just listen to Black Sabbath to your hearts content.
 
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Warszawa

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Agreed. Sounds like you made your decision a while ago. You're just going to have to take the hit and chalk this one up to experience.
 

Lawrence001

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Good you have to remove all other variables to isolate the difference.

I do think the more expensive speakers will be measurably better, but can't say if "better" aligns with your preferences.

Do you have any Wammers nearby who can bring some gear and have a play with you? I find it a great help when trying to sort a problem with the system.

Where are you located btw?
 

nomore landings

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FWIIW, I ended up with mine 65 cms out, much more than the recommended minimum. Tuga could be right. Perhaps the 6.5" drivers have much larger excursion - long throw?- to achieve the bass extension vs the 8" Opticon 8s And a more directional pressure wave? Beyond my knowledge. In both cases the port tuning allows little roll off in the bottom octave and @ 42ish Hz of the bass guitar' s E string. I moved one GIK bass trap 6" out from the corner for hoovering and the bass quality improved. Room acoustics is a curious beast. Good luck and hope a solution is found.
 
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Nativebon

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I've had this experience before of trying 'better' but not liking it. If you trying really hard to like, then it seems obvious to me it's the newer speakers.
Better applies to system synergy, room acoustics and personal preference.

Try and see how you get on but always go with your gut what you prefer in your space.
 

Blacksabbath25

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Good you have to remove all other variables to isolate the difference.

I do think the more expensive speakers will be measurably better, but can't say if "better" aligns with your preferences.

Do you have any Wammers nearby who can bring some gear and have a play with you? I find it a great help when trying to sort a problem with the system.

Where are you located btw?
Not sure who lives close to me to be honest i think i have have had Nativebon round mine but can not remember as it was a while ago .
 
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Nativebon

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We did
Not sure who lives close to me to be honest i think i have have had Nativebon round mine but can not remember as it was a while ago .
We did arange to meet up but never happen for some reason. Think I was not feeling very well.
 

Blacksabbath25

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We did

We did arange to meet up but never happen for some reason. Think I was not feeling very well.
I think at the time i had the Yamaha A-S2100 which i had to send for repair so i had to use my AV which wasn't the same but now use the old Yamaha flagship the A-S 3000 but kept the CD player the Yamaha CD2100 .

So basically only changed the speakers around and added the DAC and use the OPPO 203 for streaming my ROON music .
It would be nice one day to meet up again
 
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Nativebon

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I think at the time i had the Yamaha A-S2100 which i had to send for repair so i had to use my AV which wasn't the same but now use the old Yamaha flagship the A-S 3000 but kept the CD player the Yamaha CD2100 .

So basically only changed the speakers around and added the DAC and use the OPPO 203 for streaming my ROON music .
It would be nice one day to meet up again
Definitely. I'm up for that
 
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