THIS MIGHT CAUSE A BIG ROW

The Strat

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Aug 17, 2005
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Lindsay
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It might be the cartridge but...................

Back last Spring I owned a perfectly acceptable Rega P25 TT. Quite happy thought I could do better, found a nice 2nd handLP 12/Akito/Armeggedon took home sounded brilliant. Subsequently found to have many problems dealer offered full refund.

Agreed with Mrs Strat to put up more capital auditioned products by Michell/Rega (P9)/Project. Ordered a Michell Oydssey with Ortofon kontrapunkt H/Dino+.

Now owned it for 14 days. Don't get me wrong much that is excellent, space around instruments, detail, timing but it is as harsh and in many ways more unforgiving than a CD player - and a not very good one at that. Dealer concerned very patient - suggests Ortofon could well be culprit (but several on here use the same combo) and has offered to change. Could be that a wall shelf might help but am getting reluctant to keep undertaking further changes as could be pursuing wrong end - some extensive DIY in the lounge will notin all likelihoodbe popular! As it is the Linn gave a far more musical and satisfying result andlast night resorted to Arcam CD player.

Also yesterday went with a mate to listen to new amps - in 2 dealers I was struck by just how "analogue" the Naim CDX2 and Copland CD players are.

I'm not happy (in the audiophile sense) and am beginning to think AK was right - leave vinyl alone too much a labour of love - or at the least just have a budget TT alongside high end CD.

Comments - in particular would a cartridge make much difference?

 

PaulH

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Oct 16, 2005
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HiFi Trade?
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How much vinyl do you own?

If it's a fair bit then stay with a reasonable TT.

If not much... do as AK did... convert to CD, and sell up.

 

kennyk

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Aug 8, 2005
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thecrossovernetwork,
sounds like the cart needs time to run in a bit.

I'd suggest leaving the stylus in the runout groove overnight for a couple of nights. give it another try after that. I think carts need around 100 hours to run in...

whats the arm, btw?

my AC-powered (wallwart) GOrbe with Roksan artemiz and shiraz is anything but harsh. (however I suspect that 2006 will be the year of the re-tip for me... )

 

The Strat

Wammer
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Aug 17, 2005
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AKA
Lindsay
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
PaulH wrote:

How much vinyl do you own?If it's a fair bit then stay with a reasonable TT.

If not much... do as AK did... convert to CD, and sell up.
500/600 but most old - is good TT/cartridge showing the wear.

 

The Strat

Wammer
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Aug 17, 2005
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Lindsay
HiFi Trade?
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kennyk wrote:

sounds like the cart needs time to run in a bit.I'd suggest leaving the stylus in the runout groove overnight for a couple of nights. give it another try after that. I think carts need around 100 hours to run in...

whats the arm, btw?

my AC-powered (wallwart) GOrbe with Roksan artemiz and shiraz is anything but harsh. (however I suspect that 2006 will be the year of the re-tip for me... )
TEchno Arm - probably had 60 hours already.

 

Crustyloafer

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Jul 25, 2005
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I would stick with it. I have found my Kontrapunkt B with the Technoarm to be anything but harm. It's certainly not soft sounding, but quite even handed. It may be becasue of the ae of the vinyl, I have noticed that the Kontrpunkt tends to dig pretty depply into the groove and so will highlight any flaws with the source material, whether that be poor recording or poorly looked after.

Have you tried using different input impedances on the Dino stage? This can greatly affect the sound, and your Kontrpunkt H is very flexible allowing any impedance over 100 ohms.

 

Ant

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Aug 5, 2005
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Antony
OK well thats good.

In my experience which isn't huge but I have heard quite a few turntable setups in the last couple of years. I have found a few setup's to be harsh and unforgiving. LP12 with Linn's most expensive arm and cartridge was so forward it hurt. The common thread between all of them was an expensive MC cartridge. The Ortofon are known for being forward and sometimes thin from what I remember. Run in with cartridges is real so as others have said this could be it.

My advice is to get him to bring over a different cart, maybe a run in ortofon or if he has one a music maker III, this will show you the other end of the spectrum and let you see what the setup can do.

My money is on the cart jsut not suiting your ears, I know I don't like them.

 

dudywoxer

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Jul 19, 2005
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sunny scunny
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colin
HiFi Trade?
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Is this the same combo as the dem you did?, if so how many hours had the demo cart got on it, I assume you are playing the same records as you did for the demo?

Check the loading on the phono stage, no experience personally but I am told that can make a huge difference. If is brighter thanon demo then I would think some thing is wrong on the set up, either alignment, tracking weight, anti skate, all of which can be checked simply.

Could you stuff a piece of mdf under the deck just to see if that changes any thing. sometimes what they are stood on can make a big difference to them and a few quid for a sheet of 18 mm or 25 mm MDF could point you in the right direction.

 

kennyk

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Aug 8, 2005
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thecrossovernetwork,
The Strat wrote:

Ant wrote:
silly question, is it set up correctly?
Not a silly question at all Ant - but set up by dealer in my lounge.
you'd think that it should be fine then. that said a dealer put the rega armboard on mine the wrong way round, affecting the pivot point...

since the suspension on the Michell takes a couple of days to settle, it might be worth getting your dealer to come back to check it.

I've read that some carts will sound horrible for the majority of the run-in time and then suddenly come on song. so give it a few more hours yet. I'm not really able to offer cartridge suggestions, as the only high end carts I've heard are the Roksan Shiraz and one other that I can't remember as it was on the dealer's deck. may have been a grasshopper. personally thinking about a change of cart anyway, possibly vDH or Lyra. not sure yet... anyway, don't want to hijack your thread...

 
M

Mr Coherent

Guest
A good question Strat, for me its a simple answer.

I never actually owned a TT until 18 months ago
shock.gif.7732780fe7e208b945ce79ca96402fca.gif
(nearly 40 as well
biggrin.png
) so I've never been a hardened Pink fish type LP12 'pigeon holed closed minded person'

I own very little vinyl.

I do have a Well Temered Ref, with Ref arm, trick phono stage & custom cart.

However IMHO music thats been committed to master tape BEFORE 1986 Sounds far better on Vinyl (Providing your have equal equipment).

Their are a few exceptions that have been remastered propered to CD, just not that many.

Most guys that have own TT's for 10+ years have a pretty fair sized Record collection. so that main listening medium is Vinyl.

CD is different to Vinyl, its a personal thing for each individual to decide which they prefer.

A few weeks back I was listening to a good friends systems, which is pretty good all fairness, He has an SME 20/2 deck and a CD7, we listened to a lot of music from all genre's that afternoon, the vinyl was better on the early 70's stuff, soul, R & B the Purple tracks, yet the best sound of the day was a BBC remaster of Rory G's sessions, I really thought it was the SME.

Superb sounds, just goes to show if the technition doing the mastering knows his onions then things can be very different
smile.png


 

ClassikFan

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Jul 19, 2005
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Stuart
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Hi Strat

Sorry to hear all is not well, I am sure there must be something wrong with your set up, as my Gyro has never sounded harsh, as my CD sometimes does!

Maybe you could get your dealer to fit a Goldring 1042 to try, as these are generally recognised as a god all rounder, might give some clues as to what may be wrong elsewhere. Mine sounded good out of the box.

Also check that the tone arm lead has plenty of slack in it. Its not dificult to set the bounce, so check everything is moving freely and thattheplatteris level.

One last thing, try taking the lid off completely as it can cause problems either open or shut.

Stuart

 

Biscuit

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should be getting my first taste of high-end cd replay soon, will report my findings - I apparently it should sound identical to my Sony transport and DAC though
wink.png


 

kingsxfan

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Jul 20, 2005
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Crustyloafer wrote:

I would stick with it. I have found my Kontrapunkt B with the Technoarm to be anything but harm. It's certainly not soft sounding, but quite even handed. It may be becasue of the ae of the vinyl, I have noticed that the Kontrpunkt tends to dig pretty depply into the groove and so will highlight any flaws with the source material, whether that be poor recording or poorly looked after.Have you tried using different input impedances on the Dino stage? This can greatly affect the sound, and your Kontrpunkt H is very flexible allowing any impedance over 100 ohms.
I'd second sticking with the arm. I've the same rig as crusty i.e. TT/arm and cart and it's bloody good. Besides, for the money you paid for the Odysee, you could have got an Orbe?

Phil

KxF

 

garyi

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Aug 13, 2005
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I couldn't disagree more about cartridge burn in.In my experience a new cartridge sounds as good as it ever will from the beginning, then slowly degrades. It does not need to burn in.If you don't like the sound now, you won't. Burn in contrary to popular belief is not an electrical fact, its just your brain and emotions adjusting to audio changes. If you don't like it now, you will never be truely satisfied.

 

Davewhityetagain

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Jul 24, 2005
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I think until its on a wall shelf you have no chance of getting a decent sound a few racks and platforms do a decent job but these days the amount of vibration around makes things very hard to set up

having used both the cdx2 and copland I can agree with you its very close to record sound

 

kennyk

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Aug 8, 2005
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thecrossovernetwork,
garyi wrote:

I couldn't disagree more about cartridge burn in.In my experience a new cartridge sounds as good as it ever will from the beginning, then slowly degrades. It does not need to burn in.If you don't like the sound now, you won't. Burn in contrary to popular belief is not an electrical fact, its just your brain and emotions adjusting to audio changes. If you don't like it now, you will never be truely satisfied.
it's not so much burn in as a mechanical run in of the suspension. so I'd have to disagree garyi.

oh, meant to add, there's a gyro tweak you can do, if you isolate the armboard from the subchassis with little rings of blu-tac (6 in all) and loosen the bolts very slightly.

 

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