To 'Turntable', or not?

Non-Smoking Man

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Jack lambert
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
This was a question (in so many words) posted on a sub forum, and as I have no standing there, I shall frame my answer here..

I have always favoured vinyl playback over CD, and I see no reason to change re streaming (bar its obvious convenience). This is partly because I have built up a vast collection of LPs over the years and it would not be cost effective/practical to switch at my age. But there are other arguments in favour of turntable replay.

I shall make 2 claims (both relating to cost):
1. A vinyl playback system need not be exhorbitantly expensive, and, if you already have a hifi system in place adding a vinyl front end is less expensive still. Its all relative of course, but I am staggered by the amounts that are being forked out on 'modern' technology, where a decent idler deck, a Rega arm and a £1000 MC (Hana, Benz Wood, Ortofon), say, can be had for £2K.

2. (Re'Software') Vinyl can be cheap if you know where to look (and seemingly most of you dont). Rabski, with whom I am usually in firm agreement over valve related topics and the merits of analog, has got it wrong where he says in his Linn Forum piece that the average record is (about) £25. At record fairs (I dont touch High Street retailers new, or used, ) the average ia about half that - 'preloved' Blue Note reissues are available for less than that and yer average Roxy, Dire Straits, Joan A, record in VG+ condition can be had for under a tenner.
And you can negotiate face to face with the dealer and build up a degree of trust with dealers over time at your local fair. Despite a venue I sell at regularly in the south having a modicum of exposure in our Parish magazine, I rarely see a WAM punter. You would think they were an endangered species. This is all the more surprising since they are highly likely to get a handsome discount on surprise factor alone!

(3. I love the physical product and artwork - there is something missing from other formats imo. There is, however, the 'inconvenience' of getting off your arse to turn the thing over..well we could all do with losing some weight..)

Jack NSM
 
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DomT

Food and coffee and rock n roll
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Jul 23, 2019
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Dom
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
This was a question (in so many words) posted on a sub forum, and as I have no standing there, I shall frame my answer here..

I have always favoured vinyl playback over CD, and I see no reason to change re streaming (bar its obvious convenience). This is partly because I have built up a vast collection of LPs over the years and it would not be cost effective/practical to switch at my age. But there are other arguments in favour of turntable replay.

I shall make 2 claims (both relating to cost):
1. A vinyl playback system need not be exhorbitantly expensive, and, if you already have a hifi system in place adding a vinyl front end is less expensive still. Its all relative of course, but I am staggered by the amounts that are being forked out on 'modern' technology, where a decent idler deck, a Rega arm and a £1000 MC (Hana, Benz Wood, Ortofon), say, can be had for £2K.

2. (Re'Software') Vinyl can be cheap if you know where to look (and seemingly most of you dont). Rabski, with whom I am usually in firm agreement over valve related topics and the merits of analog, has got it wrong where he says in his Linn Forum piece that the average record is (about) £25. At record fairs (I dont touch High Street retailers new, or used, ) the average ia about half that - 'preloved' Blue Note reissues are available for less than that and yer average Roxy, Dire Straits, Joan A, record in VG+ condition can be had for under a tenner.
And you can negotiate face to face with the dealer and build up a degree of trust with dealers over time at your local fair. Despite a venue I sell at regularly in the south having a modicum of exposure in our Parish magazine, I rarely see a WAM punter. You would think they were an endangered species. This is all the more surprising since they are highly likely to get a handsome discount on surprise factor alone!

(3. I love the physical product and artwork - there is something missing from other formats imo. There is, however, the 'inconvenience' of getting off your arse to turn the thing over..well we could all do with losing some weight..)

Jack NSM
As a former Lenco owner I totally agree that a great deck doesn’t have to cost that much. Also agree about the cost of LPs. Most of mine are second hand. Most cost £3-4 each from dealers at fairs (but once bought 200 at one fair because they were £2 each) and at Deco Audio my average price is about £5-6 for VG/EX grade LPs and I have never had to return any.

I also need to get off the sofa more often!
 
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audio_PHIL_e

audioPHILe
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The wrong planet
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  1. No
I think the main reason for not using vinyl is your cat.

You start side A, he comes to sit on you. 20 minutes later you turf him off, to rescue the stylus. He sulks in the corner but 15 minutes later he forgives you then comes back to sit on you. 5 minutes after that you turf him off again to rescue the stylus from side B and maybe start side A of something else.

Whereas if you load up some devices that click off at the end (cassettes, CD, etc) and have the remote controls to hand you can spend 2 or 3 hours with the cat on your lap and still have a variety of entertainment available.
 

StingRay

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Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It depends where you live, can't see any record fairs in my area. There is a record sale in a hall but the prices are ridiculous for used records, cheapest are £10, small tatty selection, then the rest start at £20. Not even sure it still happens.

I did seriously consider getting a turntable about 3 years ago, prices then for TTs were high, seem to have come down recently. But availability of records and prices put me off. I would have been buying mostly 50s Jazz and a few 70s rock. I only have small collection from my 70s youth.
 

Jules_S

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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I think the main reason for not using vinyl is your cat.

You start side A, he comes to sit on you. 20 minutes later you turf him off, to rescue the stylus. He sulks in the corner but 15 minutes later he forgives you then comes back to sit on you. 5 minutes after that you turf him off again to rescue the stylus from side B and maybe start side A of something else.

Whereas if you load up some devices that click off at the end (cassettes, CD, etc) and have the remote controls to hand you can spend 2 or 3 hours with the cat on your lap and still have a variety of entertainment available.
Make the cat sit on his own bed. Problem solved. :)

I echo Jack's point about the price of the software for a turntable-based front end. Sure, if you have none at all, and insist on buying everything brand new at full retail price, it's going to cost you a pretty packet. Probably more than the TT you're playing it on! I suppose I was fortunate, starting back in the early 90's when even new LPs in HMV were around £8 - £12 and I did buy quite a lot. But I also bought a far larger quantity of good quality (condition) second hand LPs too, often for under £1 each and went halves on an RCM with my dad. That machine (a VPI wet cleaner) salvaged a great many purchases and has proved its worth time and time again.

Even nowadays, allowing for inflation etc used LP prices make it far more affordable to start building a collection. And ultimately, just because some of us nutters have thousands of the things, you don't have to go to anything like those lengths to "justify" a vinyl front end. Buy what you love, play them lots and get pleasure out of it, even if that's just 10 records. Quality over quantity any day.
 

rabski

Everything in moderation
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It depends where you live, can't see any record fairs in my area.
I agree with Jack on many points here, but there is a similar dearth of regular fairs within easy reach for me. Generally I thus normally buy new, and I'm careful about which pressings/labels, so I stick to my 'roughly £25' as not unrealistic.

I also agree about the cost of a turntable. However, an MC cartridge at £1000, plus a decent idler is fine, but then you need a suitable phono stage, not to mention another two sets (at least) of cables. There's no getting round it. Like it or not, if you want a vinyl front end that won't make you wish you'd stuck with streaming, you need to dig deeper in your pocket than you would for an equivalent digital source.

The situation is different here than for some people, as I started buying LPs about 50 yeats ago and I haven't stopped yet. A means to play them is therefore somewhat important. Don't get me wrong though, primarily I stick with vinyl because the quality and closeness to 'reality' can be utterly stunning.

And I also call BS on this moaning about cracks, pops, noise, etc. (sorry Andrew :ROFLMAO:). If you get a lot of that, then either your vinyl is poor quality, your setup is poor quality or you're not looking after your LPs properly. The LPs I have that are noisy are generally old and a bit battered, even then it's not distracting. An awful lot of LPs here are as near silent as is my digital source.
 

lazycat

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Dec 20, 2007
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
a decent idler deck, a Rega arm and a £1000 MC (Hana, Benz Wood, Ortofon), say, can be had for £2K.
You really don't have to spend that much IMO. Post LP12 I bought a cheap, but mid-fi JVC turntable (JLA40) added an AT95E and I was away.

It sounded much better than I expected and eventually led me to my fettled Technics. I have to say that £1k on a cartridge is quite a lot of money for most and a decent sound can be had for much less.

There are no record fairs near me now, so it's eBay and charity shops for the odd bargain.
Sadly, I haven't been able to get out much this year and miss the rummaging. :)
 

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
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Suffolk coast, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I agree with Jack on many points here, but there is a similar dearth of regular fairs within easy reach for me. Generally I thus normally buy new, and I'm careful about which pressings/labels, so I stick to my 'roughly £25' as not unrealistic.

I also agree about the cost of a turntable. However, an MC cartridge at £1000, plus a decent idler is fine, but then you need a suitable phono stage, not to mention another two sets (at least) of cables. There's no getting round it. Like it or not, if you want a vinyl front end that won't make you wish you'd stuck with streaming, you need to dig deeper in your pocket than you would for an equivalent digital source.

The situation is different here than for some people, as I started buying LPs about 50 yeats ago and I haven't stopped yet. A means to play them is therefore somewhat important. Don't get me wrong though, primarily I stick with vinyl because the quality and closeness to 'reality' can be utterly stunning.

And I also call BS on this moaning about cracks, pops, noise, etc. (sorry Andrew :ROFLMAO:). If you get a lot of that, then either your vinyl is poor quality, your setup is poor quality or you're not looking after your LPs properly. The LPs I have that are noisy are generally old and a bit battered, even then it's not distracting. An awful lot of LPs here are as near silent as is my digital source.
The nearest to me this month is in Kettering. Nothing in Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, Cambs or Herts. Maybe there are more in the summer?

Turntable would have been around £350 plus around £150 cartridge plus phono stage around £150 plus TT shelf. Compared to a streamer and DAC, it's not that expensive. But to have decent record collection would cost lots. But what about record cleaning?
 

MartinC

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Jul 29, 2005
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
On pure software cost there is simply no contest between vinyl and streaming. I pay the equivalent of £10.83 per month for access to the entire Qobuz music library.

The reasons for people to keep listening to vinyl come down to the other factors: the sound, liking the physical aspects and already having a large record collection.

For myself I'm in the 'not' camp with @bencat though.
 

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