Turntable quandry

[willie shaw]

:nerves:I'm going to change my new VIP Aries tt for a vintage model. So far considering a yamaha gt2000,

maybe a garrard 401 maybe a modded technics. What say ye wammers who are more experienced than I .

wilimg to spend up to 2.5 k incl arm and not incl cart. I have ortofon rohmann . One I really liked in a friends home was an sme 10 which is still current.

willie

 

[pure sound]

You could do alot worse than a fully restored 301 or 401 in a nice plinth with a 12" arm.

 

[MJ.]

The Yamaha GT decks are seriously good turntables. Look lovely and very rare in Europe too.

 

[graham67]

Hi willie,

I'm probably not telling you anything you havent thought of yourself, but I would suggest seeking out or even better trying some vintage models in the flesh. Different designs all have their own feel to their operation. I am probably not explaining this very well, but for example when I tried a Linn LP12, i just didnt like the feel of using it, with the wobbly platter and the feather light arm. It all felt so imprecise (though it made nice music!). And for different reasons I am not a fan of the lightweight Regas. Nothing wrong with either decks of course, just a personal preference. Whereas I love the positive mechanical feel of a Garrard.

Of course none of this equates to quality of sound, but a vintage deck is more a heart than head decision. So if you find a TT you really enjoy using and owning, you will be more inclined to stick with it during the initial and inevitable fettling phase. I have forgiven foibles in my 401 that I wouldnt be so accepting of if I didnt like it so much! It is a bit like a classic car, your mindset tends to be different. So given that it is as old as I am, I tend to think it is a minor miracle it works at all!

And of course with a vintage model, condition is everything so if you have a more than one possible deck in your search lights you can wait until a good example from your list pops up.

I have thought of one possible alternative. Have you considered the Inspire idler deck (a rebuilt lenco). They sound brilliant and price-wise are about your budget. It could be the best of both worlds - a vintage deck without the heartache.

See http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?75032-Inspire-Hi-Fi-s-new-Idler-Drive-Turntable-Launching-at-the-Whittlebury-Hall-Show!

Another option is an old Thorens. Inspire service, rebuild and replinth some of their models and they look lovely. Prices are well within your budget too.

You could even come along to the Whittlebury show and check them out - I assume Inspire will be exhibiting again. It would make a nice weekend away across the pond.

All the best,

Graham.

 

[banjoman]

Definitely explore the Garrard route. I recently got my 401 serviced by Dom of Northwest Analogue and got a new double layered slate plinth made. With a 12 inch unipivot arm on it now, it sounds absolutely brilliant. Well worth the investment

 

[old_school]

My biggest fear with vintage DD decks is spares. Like it or not, sometimes an unobtanium part fails, and you're left with an expensive boat anchor (or a lucrative parting out on eBay, but that doesn't play much music). The Garrards are made of big levers and switches and mechanical stuff. Maybe a capacitor in there somewhere, easily replaced by something from Maplin. The only drawback to them is shot bearings (in the spindle or motor) can be expensive to fix, so get a good one and take care of it. Your budget will get you either of the Garrards, with a pretty good packet left for an arm. I'd recommend the 401, as it will leave you much more for the arm.

The Yamaha is awfully tempting though.

 

[willie shaw]

Thanks for all comments. I agree with some of the remarks above, I also do not like the linn and really like direct drive. 401 seems to get the votes over 301. Am talking to a seller of yamaha but only drawback is no seller history and is based in Croatia

wll def go to next wigwam annual day out .

 

[graham67]

actually if you like direct drive (301/401 is idler drive) - technics SP-10 is brilliant. even though i love my 401, a well sorted SP-10 is amazing.

 

[willie shaw]

Of all the technics in that vein sp 10/15/20. Is the sp10 the best. I really like the look .

as I make furniture I could then ask here for links to plans for a good plinth .

 

[Andy831]

401 seems to get the votes over 301.

Willie, I have both and if I had to sell one it would be the 401.....

 

[willie shaw]

Been doing a whole lot of reading seems perfect world is to have a 301 and an sp10!

thanks everyone

willie

 

[mighty ant]

Have you thought of a Thorens 124/1? If it has the top platter there should be no hum issue with m/cs and IMO they look better than the Mk2. :run: Send it to Dom at Northwest Analogue for service/refurbishment and ask him about his 12" SME. Unlike the Garrards, which need very massy plinths to perform properly, the Thorens can almost be put in a wooden orange box for a plinth.

Don't get me wrong, the 301 & 401 are excellent decks when sorted properly and can see off many of todays t/ts and depending on your musical presentation preference the Garrards are more in your face and grunt better, but if you like a more refined presentation then the Thorens could well be your cup of tea and they also do bass, but more genteel like.

Have fun.

Anthony.

 

[Clive197]

My vote goes to the Technics, yes I know I'm biased as I have just purchased one. The SL 1200/1210 series have no moving parts to wear out as the platter is part of the motor and it has no bearings because the motor is on a magnet. Parts are ten a penny as these TT's were sold in there millions all over the world.

throw the arm away or sell it on flea bay. There is a huge choice out there. I chose Origin Live. Who also supplied the arm board suitable for the Technics.

DIRECT DRIVE RULES

 

[divedeepdog]

I may be able to shed light on the 3 /401 next week, but my take on Garrard Vs Technics is one will extract more information and more accuracy, the Garrard's rock and boogy.

I'd advise listening essential, but that sounds like its difficult with the Yammy (it does look nice though)

 

[John (big)]

I use a Hydraulic Reference had I not been using it since new I would go for a Garrard 401 or Acoustic Solid Machine...

John

 

[pure sound]

The other option might be a well sorted Lenco. There's an array of nice parts available; new top plate, bearing, idler wheel etc that can bring the performance to a very high level if then mounted in an appropriate plinth.

 

[f1eng]

My parents had a Goldring-Lenco GL 75. As an engineer I was always astonished that anybody would design any transmission system requiring infinite narrowness to work without skidding!

It had a horizontal axis for the idler wheel, which bore on the underside of the platter, ffs.

If anybody working for me had come up with such a fundamental misunderstanding of basic engineering principles I would have sacked them!

The only thing of merit it had was cheapness of manufacture.

The Garrard and Thorens idler drive turntables are about 400 billion times better conceptually.

Having written that, it is amazing what one can get away with on a turntable and have potential customers like it!

 

[pure sound]

Having heard Graham's (GThang) a few times it works extremely well despite the apparently eccentric design features.

 

[f1eng]

Having heard Graham's (GThang) a few times it works extremely well despite the apparently eccentric design features.

Like quite a few others I suppose!

Round section drive belts are equivalently poor engineering practice!